I said it more than once that despite the amazing moves by the Birds front office to sign quality free agents after the lockout, the most important aspect of training camp was the development of Michael Vick. He has been learning to recognize blitzes, make the changes in the pass protection, then take the snap and get the football out of his hands.
He had a great training camp, but he had an awful performance against the Steelers. Maybe he was distracted by the controversy surrounding the GQ article. Maybe he was baited into throwing those interceptions by caged Steelers defensive coordinator Dick LeBeau.
Let me make it clear, if Vick doesn’t have a great season the Eagles chances of going all the way are very small. One things for sure, he can’t read blitz, then throw the ball up for grabs while being unaware that there’s a free safety in the area.
He can’t telegraph passes to receivers like he did on the second interception and he can’t panic when under pass rush pressure, then throw a ball up for grabs as he did with the last interception.
Yesterday Eagles offensive coordinator Marty Mornhinweg took some of the blame for Vick’s performance.
“I put him in a couple bad spots”, the former Detroit Lions head coach said. “I need to do a better job there. And you know Mike, the kid’s character; he would always stand up and take responsibility. Look, it’s my responsibility to get points on the board and to put him in good spots and all of those things that go into a football game, that’s my responsibility. And so, I’ll do better next time, and then when he’s in those spots he’ll do better next time. It shows his character when he steps up and takes responsibility even when it’s not his.”
When asked about the three interceptions which Vick threw, Mornhinweg responded, “He’d like to have a couple of those back. We’ve discussed that and I’ll put him in a little bit of a better spot next time”.
He needs to play well against the Cleveland Browns on Thursday. In all likelihood, he won’t play the final preseason game, so this will be his final dress rehearsal for the start of the regular season. He needs to be sharp and productive.
Defenses are going to blitz the Eagles until Vick proves he can handle it. The explosive offense which we saw against the Redskins on that Monday Night game, needs to return, but the only way we see that again, Vick has to prove he can handle the blitz.
The Steelers blitzed him and had success, so you know what teams are going to do when the season starts. I don’t care how many people say it was no big deal, I think it’s very important that Vick not repeat that performance this week.
This team gets its confidence from Vick. He’s got to play well in order to be able to give that confidence to the rest of the team. He’s the leader, so they need him to step it up with a good performance on Thursday.
Notice how the Steelers played the Eagles last Thursday night. They were embarrassed by the Redskins in their first preseason game, so they got serious for the game against the Eagles. Say what you will, Mike Tomlin and the Steelers know quite a bit about winning.
The Birds need to follow Pittsburgh lead as they prepare for the Browns.
no garry- he does not. Its preseason.
Going back to the last 7 Games Vick has played
12 TD Passes and 10 Int’s with about 3-4 Fumbles lost… This will not get it done if the Eagles want to make a serious Playoff run..
Last year the season rested on his arm. And while I would agree that he must play well for us to go far, this team has been built to do everything needed (except stop the run). There is enough talent on this team to finally have the D win us a game or 2 this year. They have enough taalent to have the run game win us 2 games. Yes, vick looked bad last week and yes he needs to read the D better but please calm down. Its PREFRICKINSEASON!!
and now the flipside of my comments-
what id like to see them do: start with a quick slant or 2. Mix in a run game. use the TE’s. Lets not throw 3 hailmarys- we know they can do that. Lets put a Drive together. Maybe a screen or 2.
drat, shoulda put my last post on this thread instead…..fits better here…
Does anyone else sense this Eagle Coaching Staff being a little too soft and apologetic for some of their players perfomances.. Coach MM about Vick who threw 2 poorly passes for Int’s into double coverages, how is that MM fault..and actaully got away with a couple of other poor passes in both Pre-Season games thus far.. and then Castillo about the LB Matthews play..
I know there are lots of new players and many of them are young, but let’s not coddle these players and give them excuses for failing to do basic reads..
Oh paul, you still don’t understand that coaches talking to the media is less significant than an A.D.D bratty 12 year old telling his teacher that he will actually do his homework this time? The coaches talk to the media because they have to. They know that its problematic to actually conduct their business through the media and best practices to talk all blame and deflect it from the players (when talking to the media). You love to instigate and nitpick, but I think you could really benefit from a touch of perspective. I’d like to see you approach a knowledgeable NFL professional, at any level, and ask them to speak with you for a moment about coach’s statements during the preseason. Their eyes would be rolling more than the amount of rolling beer cans in a LINC parking lot by mid first quarter of a REGULAR season game.
@Paulman, I agree with you…but who knows what is said behind closed doors…too the public noone wants to present any type of issue especially this early on in the season…I hope that MM and AR really let into Vick a bit after Thursday’s game…but we dont know thier relationship, they may not have had to…Also its true that MM has to do a better job, so does all of the coaches…
It may be “Pre Season ”
But Vick’s performance is a continuation of the end of last season
Teams have learned how to defend him
And as far as a great training camp –well it is the Eagles D he is playing against and we saw how they looked against the Steelers
YEAH he does need a good game against the Browns
Can’t go into the regular season on a negative mind set which will happen if the Browns game is a repeat of the Steelers
And he really wasn’t that great against the Ravens
Cooper had his man beaten by 3 yards and Vick under threw him again and it took a great catch
His size is also against him
The successful QBs are 6′ 3″ or better and 220 or better
What I see on thsese message boards is so often what happens with sprots reporters/writers/blogers/commentators etc. The inability to look at something empiricaly,and instead follow the herd and and stick with what is accepted dogma. (same thing happening in the financial world)
Three cases in point:
1. “Favre’s still got it.”
For a decade we were reminded that he was great. Every pick was covered up with, “That’s just Favre being Favre – just having fun out there!” Meanwhile, behind the scenes everyone in their heart knew he was done, but I guess couldn’t accept it. It was fitting the 2009 season ended with a pick….who didn’t see that coming?
2. “Tiger is still a great pro golfer.”
I happened to be driving through the USA a couple weeks back and caught some ESPN radio. 2 jokers rambling on for an hour about how Woods was still the best. No one would want to be in the same pairing with him on a Sunday!! It was comical. Guy hasn’t won a tourney in over 2 years. No PGA pro is ‘afraid’ of him anymore. Then he promptly went out and finished what? 150th at the PGA? But people love to hang on to what they think they believe. Which leads to……
3. “Vick is a good QB.”
“He’s got so much talent.” “He’s getting better as a passer.” “Once he learns to pick up the blitz – watch out.” Aside from his incarceration, he’s been a pro QB for a decade. Just look at the numbers:
One season of 300 yards. Not 4000. 3000. ONCE. You know who else had one 3000yrd season in 10 years? Jay Fiedler. Would you guys hang your hat on him?
How about TDs? One season with 21 TDs. Not 31. 21. He’s hit the 20 TD mark 2x in his career. You know who else hit 20 tds 2x in his career? Brian Griese. In fact Griese threw for 119 tds in his 11 year career, so Vick is still playing catch-up.
I am just simply amazed at this ‘VIck is a good QB” arguement. Sure he looked great for 4 games last year, and then had that comeback against the Giants when he scrambled around like a maniac….but otherwise….its been a decade of mediocrity. If he couldn’t run fast, he’d be 3rd string on the Bengals with his numbers.
What kind of moron counts pre-season stats? Paulman, its time for your daily dose of STFU.
“there is no blitz only rule…”
Lets get serious guys stop overanalyzing the preseason. There is no game plan for these games right now. Wake me up when the real season starts.
@wild_bk — EXACTLY. They don’t gameplan, they don’t prepare…they just come up with a vanilla playbook and throw it out there and lets see what happens.
Some of these morons that take this to heart are just idiots.
How did Vick look in the preseason last year? We were all saying “I hope Kolb doesn’t get hurt cause Vick looks atrocious” — now fast forward and tell me, how did Vick look in the regular season?
I agree RT777,
Definitely no time to panic or to be calling out any players in public..
I do think we can agree that the Play-Calling, Offensive Schemes have to be better and probably a little more conservative and basic while this OL gets sorted out and until WR’s Maclin/S Smith are fully heatlhy and up to speed and think with a mix of of running the ball more, throwing more screens, & using the TE’s is the way to go for the next 4-6 weeks.. Then they can open it up once the group is healthy and on the same page and gets their confidence back, but simply just slinging it around the field 65% of time is not going to help this Offense develop the confidence or execution level that it needs to sustain drives and control the line of scrimmage and the flow of the game and would be a huge help to this new defensive group who need some time to find their way and develop some confirdence also.. At least, that’s what I hope this Coaching Staff will be doing as the Season starts …Time will tell though…
birdo – BRAVO
If I play the Eagles and QB Vick,
I rush 4 DL after him with the outside DE’s mainting lane balance to keep him in the pocket, then I play a Cover 2 with Safeties to defense the deep routes..
If a team does this and has decent LB to cover the TE’s and RB out of the backfield/screen plays, then is the EAgle Offense and more improtantly is the play-calling disciplined enough to take what the other teams Defense is giving you.. Are the discplined enough to maybe run the ball more with Draws,revereses, power sweeps,etc,etc… I hope they are but they will have to be able to prove it to me for in the past, they (Coaches and Players) have not shown the consistency to be able to do this… and that is the difference of a well-rounded, consistetn Offense in the NFL, not just an explosive one..
An offense that adapts to the team and schemes they are playing against and not just going out there saying this is our game-plan and we are sticking to it hell or high water and this is the very reason that Coach AR and the Eagles have not a Super Bowl by now… (any maybe never will IMO)
Hey BirdBeamen…..”How did Vick look in the regular season?”
I dunno
20th in passing yrds
9th in passing yrds/game
16th in TDs
10th in passing %
5th sacked
28th in INTs (bright spot?)
In his last 4 games he was 2-2 (with once in a lifetime miracle comeback) with 7tds, 5ints, 14x sacked (ouch),and 2 lost fumbles.
Can’t get better than that!!
Way to tell have the story Vin. He started 12 games last season. And you simply forget that he ran for almost 700 yards and had 9 TDs there. By your standards he is not good, we get it. Because by your standards, a running QB can’t be good. Got it. You can’t simply take away all the production from his legs to make your point.
And the number of sacks kinda depends on the offensive line. Would you hold sacks against Manning or Brady, 2 dudes who are statues in the pocket?
Sorry, half the story.
The ranks were for the entire season. The whole story.
The final 4 games highlight the point I was trying to make all last season. That as soon as D players got used to Vick’s speed again, and D-coords started watching the guy on film and re-discovering his faults, he would revert to his mean…and for Vick, his mean = a pretty mediocre QB (I am being generous). The last 4 games saw this played out.
I would count sacks against Brady or Manning if they got sacked. Funny how those statues don’t fall down very much. Perhaps their O-lines so good cause the QBs never have the ball in their hands for 7 and 8 seconds, like a certain good buddy of yours.
And finally, no, I don’t count the runs becasue for the most part QB runs are the result of a SNAFU. The majority of Vick’s runs are pass calls gone bad. Vick’s runs are mistakes. So no, I don’t count them ’cause it means things have gone wrong. I understand, you might like them because they’re exciting…but they’re not going to win playoff games.
It was also preseason for Big Ben.
“I put him in a couple bad spots”, the former Detroit Lions head coach said. “I need to do a better job there.
Sounds like Andy Reid schooled him. I hope he is not repeating this statement late in the season.
As far as Vick having a bad preseason last year –He wasn’t running the first team offense with a year as starting QB behind him
When he did start teams hadn’t yet learned how to defend him in the West Coast offense of Reid’s
They do know and you can bet they all watch those game films
We are in trouble this year and I think Andy Reid knows it
Vick has to revert to running he will not last till Mid Season
Vinnie, you are a hater that skews stats in order to fit your argument. You can’t take away Vick’s legs and rushing stats because thats PART of his GAME you moron.
Just for fun, who do you want back there?
I really don’t think you’re even an Eagles fan. Calling Vick a “mediocre” QB — even fans of other teams laugh at you.
And here comes the ‘hater’ business. Just cause I don’t think he’s a SB QB…or even a good QB I’m a hater. I’m a hater cause he’s thrown for over 20 tds just once…thrown for over 2700 yrds just once…good god, look at how low the bar is set with those numbers! And so I’m a hater…..that the man can’t even get to what just about anyone would consider PATHETIC starting QB numbers. Hate it up.
As for other teams ‘laughing’…lets take the last 6 SB QBs…would any one of them trade their QB for Vick str8 up? OK, the Giants would. And that’s it.
As for other fans laughing….the only laughing they’re getting is writing the # of “dream team” emails that have been showing up in my inbox since Thursday.
Please remember that I live in an environment where no one team is dominant… I can assure you I get more “You know you’re never going to win anything with VIck, than I do, you guys are going to win x# of SBs with Vick.”
Vinnie, you know NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING about football. Youre right tho, Vick just won comeback player of the year, NFC MVP, but he sucks…he’s not good….at all.
So what you are saying whole story is that if Vick played 4 more complete games he would still have the same amount of pass yards and TDs? I don’t know how to argue against that because it isn’t true.
So, um yeah the Colts line and the Manning offensive lines are much better than the Eagles lines. I think that that is fairly obvious. Also for Manning, the offense is a timing offense. Dude makes his reads and the ball is gone. Vick doesn’t have near the time either of these guys do.
You don’t count his yards, because it wasn’t a planned run????? What? Well, then I am not going to count any stats for any team unless the play went exactly as planned. That makes sense.
And I like the runs because he added 9 TDs to the Eagles which, here is the only time that I will agree with you, yes is exciting. I would think that most of the people posting in here think that Eagles TDs are exciting. This is an Eagles fansite isn’t it?
Your miracle game, the BTW was exciting because the Eagles scored TDs, Vick threw 3 TD passes and ran for another one. Was that a good game? Oh, wait no it was terrible, because he only completed passes at a 60% rate which is not higher than 10 other QBs.
And are you seriously in your calculations counting the Minny game as a bad game? Dude got hammered that game because the Birds line was held together Magruber style. Jared Allen was in the effin huddle which is why I am Oh so excited about Queen Dunlap protecting Vick’s blindside.
Just so I get you…his stats were low ’cause he didn’t play all 16….’cause he was hurt…
I suppose now is the time to remind everyone he’s only played 16 games once in his career. So it should be expected that he’ll miss time isn’t it? His stats last year were only marginally better than his best year in Atlanta. Good times.
Why are you guys so adverse to a real, honest discussion to who Vick is as a QB? The instant someone (me, Rcp) brings up that perhaps all the hype is a fabrication, and doesn’t really relate to his career accomplishments…its HATER HATER, YOU”RE NOT A FAN!, YOU KNOW NOTHING!
You guys rollining with a bit of an inferiority complex or something.
And just to make sure, its ok to bring up Dunlap’s flaws, but not Vick’s. Wouldn’t want to hurt his feelings I guess.
I find it amazing that Vick’s preseason play is being mentioned to the extent it is. I know he will never do enough to satisfy some, but preseason? Also, why is it so hard for people to see that the primary problem with this team -specifically the offense- has been the coach? The preseason would be an excellent opportunity for this idiot to show some consistent commitment to run the ball. But Reid will never learn. F-ing Shady and Ronnie Brown (with a dynamic D.Lewis riding shotgun) and I guarantee this azzhole will f it up. And I’m not basing this off no one damn preseason game.
Just so I get that you didn’t counter any of my points at all here.
Never called you a hater, but I will call out your arguments that I think are flawed. You can’t discount his running ability as if it was nothing. It brings too much to the team especially when it wins games. How can you take away 9 TDs? 38% of the time that he ran it is was a 1st down. He averaged almost 7 yards a carry.
If you want to talk about his flaws, fine he has plenty. He holds the ball too long. He is not as accurate as other QBs and he doesn’t check down well. He also doesn’t carry the ball well while he is on the run. And of course he is not as good as Manning or Brady, but I don’t think that is an insult, because those guys are TOP 10 best QBs of all time who will probably be up in the TOP 5 when they are done.
And thank you for bringing up the injuries, because I am pretty sure that the Eagles paid 5 mil for a backup for him because they knew he might miss some games. Hopefully they will use VY in short yardage situations and Ronnie Brown, so that it won’ be Vick in shotgun on 3rd and short.
The reason why we are discussing the LBs and the safeties is because half haven’t played before and the other half stunk when they did. And the O-line is a pretty important, since they are the ones protecting Vick (or not protecting Vick really). Vick didn’t stink last year, so I am a lot less concerned with him than the others.
I wish that they would gameplan the TEs a lot more. Not every play has to be huge. Get me 6-7 yards on 1st down like Chad Lewis used to do. This team has never recovered since Lewis retired. He could always get the tough 1st downs or TDs in the redzone.
Vinnie- i dont have a prob with what your saying in regards to stats BUT….. where is your stat for how he imProved us into wins last year. He almost came back on GB the first time around and if you watch the 2nd Giants game, he clearly took over. Where is your stat for how bad the right side of the line was and how he worked around that my rolling to a “NEW POCKET” created for him 5 yards to the left? I have no issue with your points but dont be blinded by stats only. He played very very well MOST of last year. btw- sorry about your girl Kolb.
btw vinnie- you cant just forget that he runs very very well and teams have to gameplan for that. If the birds have DJAX, JMACK, SMITH, SHADY, VICK, all oon the field… how can teams cover them all-all of the time?
VINNY the hater- err loser- ahem victor. He’s not so much a hater as he is a Jaguars fan. Teal can be hard to tell from Green. We all know Vick isn’t good. Would a good qb go from 3rd string qb to starter in one year, then franchised? Of course not. That comeback player bs was ballot stuffing. Miracle at meadowlands? Vick handed the ball off the whole game right? Lol. If I recall you were all in on the Kolb wagon- I say follow him to Az, don’t come back to this site until week 16- so I can say “told ya” when Vick finishes this great season wth better numbers & more wins than “ya boy”. Oh wait, you wont go bc you enjoy being a fan of a team that u know will make the playoffs, you get bug eyed when Vick has a great game like the rest of us. Or you’re a troll or masochist who likes coming to gcobb to see how wrong you are all the time. You I love hlw u keep talking about the last 4 games. Great he started 12. He came back prematurely from BROKEN RIBS- YOUR BOY took 1 sack not 3 or 4 – kolb took one sack, came up woozy, and tapped out. You pegged him as the futjre in philly, turned out he’s history.feel free to reply and tell me how right I am. Thanx
LMAO @ Stevo “Sorry bout your girl Kolb” pretty much
I don’t care if Vick throws 10 interceptions against the Browns. He could have the worst game of his career and I wouldn’t care.
BUT once the Rams come and the games start to matter, Vick better play well, especially better than he did from the second half of last season.
As a die hard life long Eagles Fan I owe Vick nothing…he didn’t win us a ring last year, he got us to a wild card game which we lost at Home. Loosing Wild Card games, esp on a pick he threw to make matters worst, doesn’t do anything for me and nor should it for any Eagles fan. Since when is reaching Wild Card games special…
All I’m saying is that there should be no excuses for this guy. There is no reason he shouldn’t be able to read a damn blitz by now, after being in the league for years now. And on top of that he has 3 pro bowl wide receivers, one of the top RBs in the league, an above average TE, and a most likely a better line than last year. He has weapons everywhere and should dominate.
Vinnie, you throw out stats man and so on, I don’t care if Vick hits 3,000 yards passing or 30 TDs throwing…running…whatever…
Just win games.
Giants just lost their starting corner to a torn ACL. The have huge issues right now at CB…If you ask their coach and FO right now if they would prefer to take our terrible preseason game over this 20-6 beating on the Bears they would in a heartbeat…
That why I said the Eagles preseason game was actually a success. No serious injuries which you know is the only real goal of every team in the league coming out of these meaningless games
Vinnie gives his opinion about Vick’s abilities as an NFL quarterback, cites statistical analysis in support of his opinion, never resorts to pejorative insults about the man, like songs and others, and is labeled a “hater”, what a pussy description for someone who has the guts to state an opinion, you guys are wimps, what the he’ll does “hater” mean, why don’t you have the balls to state what you really mean, Vick is a tough dude, a competitor, but he will not get the job done because of many deficiencies in his game as pointed out by vinnnie
@eaglesinoak, you are exactly what I am talking about, you are the girly dude
That is a big blow and their 3rd CB to be lost for the entire season , Starter and Potential Pro-Bowler T Thomas, 3rd CB Bruce Johnsons and #1 Draftr Pick in Prince Amukarama…
Now they will have to go with Aaron Ross and Corey Webster..
Look for them to attempt to pick-up J Hanson and or B Hughes if either get released from the Eagles..
The Giants Pass Rush was looking pretty good versus the Bears pretty weak OL… Tuck, Kiawanuka, J Pierre-Paul, Tollefson from the DE spots and Canty, Jospeh and Canty .. I was not that impressed with Bears rookie RT G Carimi.. I mean he did ok but did get beat a few times also..
A hater is someone who states their opinion even tho that opinion is completely skewed and far from what EVERYONE that has COMMON SENSE thinks.
To say Vick isn’t that good is ludicrous. He was second in NFL MVP voting and won comeback player of the year. He made an entire fanbase completely FORGET about the best QB in franchise history.
Haters gonna hate.
It’s like saying “The Phillies aren’t that good of a team, they kinda suck” when the facts prove otherwise.
Phils won world series twice, once with current regime, back to series in 2009, don’t compare someone who idiotically says phils stink to someone who gives an opinion, based on statistics and a long history of play without a championship let alone a single super bowl appearance, and mcnabb is not the best quarterback in Philadelphia history, check your history, van Brocklin comes to mind, stop your pandering to the gcobb mob
So you agree with someone when they bring up stats to degrade Vick……but if the stats back up McNabb, that doesn’t count? STFU, you’re another moron hater that can’t accept the truth when its right there in front of you.
Tha”stat” that counts is championships, van Brocklin 1, mcnabb zero, phillies 2′ Vick zero, and the current question under debate is whether Vick can win one with his skill set, deficiencies in his game as an NFL quarterback, he’s a beast as a competitor, unlike mcnabb, he wants it as much as anyone, but I don’t believe he will win a super bowl with the eagles, especially with Reid as his coach, passaholic that he is, no balance, bad combo with Vick
That “championships” stat is a TEAM accomplishment.
Using your logic, Trent Dilfer is a better quarterback than Dan Marino — right?
wow
vick haters out in full force i see lmao
hey jake how old r u buddy
cmon man u never seen van brocklin play football lol
Vinnie is right on. There isn’t anything to indicate that Vick is any different of a QB that he has ever been and he has been mediocre at best so far in his career. He is fun to watch, forces the issue too much, and that results in memorable and exciting weeks and highlights, but the end is always disappointing. In his worst games he is a turnover machine and even in his best games he makes the same mistakes.
Go look at film of the Detroit game last year. According to K.C. Joyner Vick made 5 mistakes that could have been turnovers (i.e. the Lions dropped 5 potential INTs) against one of the worst teams at forcing QB mistakes.
So, yeah, Vick is fun to watch with that same appeal that draws millions of people to casinos. He is going to run around, take chances, and force the issue and when it works out, it’s a lot of fun and certainly memorable, but a lot of times it doesn’t and the end results and cumulative results have been disappointing so far. After 10 years the guy is what he is, though he will probably get slower in the next year or so.
Man I go away for awhile and someone takes up the mantle. Thanks for the backup Jake. .
Birdo, if: “A hater is someone who states their opinion even tho that opinion is completely skewed and far from what EVERYONE that has COMMON SENSE thinks.”
Then I am happy to be a ‘hater’ ’cause I state my ‘opposite’ opinion in regards to Vick. He will not lead the birds to a SB. He doesn;t have what it takes. Physically and mentally.
I guess I am also a ‘hater in other areas as well…… I sold all my stocks and real estate holdings in 2006, and invested in gold when it was worth $200 an ounce, all the while all my brokers and every investement ‘advisor’ I read told me I was an idiot. They didn’t say ‘hater’ but I figure it was the same meaning.
21 TDs from a QB = superbowl in what league that u follow BTW?
VanBrocklin better than McNabb – yes. McNabb #2 – has to be.
Remember the horrendous pre-season Vick had last year. How did last year go? I’m more worried going into the season with two rookies at center & RG & having a pack of stiffs at RT. Look forward to Vick leading the NFL in sacks, being hit, INT’s & getting hurt. Vick ain’t Superman, like everyone wants to make him out to be.. Every year Reid always ignores a part of the team, taking a leap of faith, & it always, always comes back to bite him in the rear end. This year it was RT & all of the LB’s. Good luck with Duncrap, Justice, Harris, Mattews, Fokoue & Chaney out of position. Reid your an idiot!!
Vin, I don’t think that anyone has an issue with the fact that you don’t think that Vick can win a SB. In fact a lot of people probably agree with you. My issue with you is that you are only looking at half of his capabilities to make your argument. He has no peer when it comes to his running ability. None. He may not be as good a passer as other QBs in the league, but you can’t just simply dismiss 676 yards and 9 TDs to make your point and because you don’t like it.
And again by your logic… Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson and Mark Rypien are better than Marino, Fouts and Jim Kelly?
SB takes more than just a QB.