• December 7, 2022

Eagles Need More Clarity About The Type Of Defensive Players They’re Looking For

It’s good news that the Birds are talking about selecting the best players when they draft rather than picking players to satisfy their needs.  It’s easy to let the team’s needs persuade you that a player is better than he is.

The Birds are going in the right direction, but I would like to see them go further by creating and establishing what they feel is a prototypical Eagles defensive player.  I think Andy Reid has done that on the offensive side of the ball whether Eagles fans like it or not.

For instance in Pittsburgh, they know what a Steeler defensive player looks like.  He’s tough, smart and committed.  They know what type of defense they want to play, so they know what type of player they’re looking for.

I want them to commit themselves to the type of defense they want to play so that they can describe the prototypical Eagles defensive player.

Maybe that player has some of the qualities of Brian Dawkins.  After all, the Eagles utilized a defense which majored in utilizing the versatility of the safeties by having them blitz, cover backs, tight ends and  receivers, as well as move up into the box and defend the run,

If the Birds had been looking for another Dawkins they would have drafted Seattle safety Earl Thomas a couple of years ago, rather than Brandon Graham.  He was a passionate, playmaking and hard-hitting safety, who has the ability to take over a game.

The former Texas star seemed to be a replica of Dawkins.  Thomas has already been a Pro Bowler, while Graham hasn’t done much yet and the Birds still need help at safety.

Maybe we’ll see that new middle linebacker DeMarco Ryans is the kind of guy they want to duplicate.  Maybe it’s hardworking defensive end, Trent Cole, who represents the type of players they want to collect.

On the offensive side, you can see the players and the formula year and year out, which Reid has used to be successful.  They know what kind of player they’re looking for but I don’t believe they have that same clarity on the defensive side of the ball.

After LeSean McCoy’s freshman year, I heard that Reid liked him.  I could tell you that he was a Andy Reid type of running back.   He was quick and elusive with great vision.

You know Brian Westbrook caught Reid’s eye at Villanova because he could run the ball, catch it, and make people miss.

We all know that Reid doesn’t like those big bruising running backs and he never will. He knows what he wants to do offensively and he knows that guy won’t fit in the plan.  He and the Eagles need to have that same clarity of vision defensively.

GCOBB

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DCar
DCar
April 19, 2012 9:55 am

Smurfs, fastballs, high motors, out of position, so called, interchangeable LB’s & someone who has had at least 1 injury. That’s the kind of players Squre peg in round hole Reid likes on DF. That’s WHY THEY SUCK ON DF! He has refused to look past his own ego, ignorance, stubbornness & status quo frame of mind, until it was too late. I really hope he has a monster draft, because as of now, other than the Ryans trade, our roster is virtually the same, with a slight downgrade. We lost the best LT in NFL & replaced him with a huge ??? We have made zero veteran FA pickups for Safety & OLB, where we have ZERO leadership, Mesante is still here, trying to sabotage his trade, by demanding assinine contract extension. He will be gone. If they think that this current roster, along with a rookie draft class is miraculously get them to the SB, they better get their resumes ready.

schiller
schiller
April 19, 2012 10:15 am

Dcar, and you would rather reid had replaced peters with_________?

You’re angry at reid for not magically creating a perfectly healthy stud free agent LT out of thin air? You moron.

And no leadership? Did you intentionally ignore the stories about ryans or did it just slip your mind? And jenkins did emerge to be somewhat of a leader last year, could develop this year.

Dcar, rosters don’t get you to the superbowl.

Rocko
Rocko
April 19, 2012 10:26 am

That’s because a lot of ou r defensive playmakers were selected during the Ray Rhodes/Jim Johnson era. AR and this FO doesn’t know a thing about defense, that’s why this FO keeps failing on the defensive side of the ball. Case in point: The steelers are reportedly looking to get Dontari Poe. They’re not concerned what school he comes from or his college stats. They’re concerned with a big nasty “mofo” beast that can stuff the middle and cause all kinds of hell to an offense, adding to that “steel curtain” dominance that they’re so known for. They have the top defensive coaches who can turn Poe into a psychomaniac defensive beast. We don’t have a defensive identity since Buddy and Ray are gone. We were some nasty “body bag” boys back in the day. Now we’re just missing out every year on defense. WHO THE HELL IS ROSEMAN TO SPILL THAT “WE GOT THE BEST GUY AT THAT POSITION DURING THE DRAFT” CRAP???????? He sucks as a GM and AR is not the best talent evaluator.

When you lose a top position like we did at FS with Dawk, you replace that position with equal or better. Earl Thomas could of filled that, “PROBLEM SOLVED”; Then we move on to the next position. Graham is a wasted pick that reminds me of these first round busts this FO have selected that just fizzles out. What other team in the NFL doesnt have a reputable defensive coach that knows how to select the best defensive players besides the eagles? KNOWONE PERIOD; We got hella offensive talent and a mediocre defense. Why did we trade away our first round picks a few years back when we needed first round help? this FO is substandard at best and doesn’t know a thing about building a championship team. Andy is prolly a control freak who needs a bunch of “yes men” like Juan who will just do what Andy says. Why is JC the defensive coordinator again?…because AR wants his but kissing buddy to be the DC because he wants to give it a try? F outta here with that weak crap. We need a coach with a pair of Elephant nutz who can bring some toughness to this team. We need some bad boyz who lives on Sundays to dish out punishment and punishment only.

Until we fans really voice our opinion and stop supporting this foolishness, this crap will keep going on. It doesn’t matter that the majority of us on here knows what this defense needs, they’re going to do another crapshoot pick like they’ve been doing every year and keep failing miserably at doing it. I believe this FO selects the old man in the hoveround wheel chair sitting near the front of the stage at the draft because he has “the best high motor” of all the other selectees at the draft! Who cares who they pick at this point, it’s just a wait and see game for us true fans.

pheags88
pheags88
April 19, 2012 10:32 am

Completely asinine and idiotic you pass up on Earl Thomas when he is there for the taking and when you are in dire need for a safety to draft a 3-4 linebacker and make him a DE in in a 4-3. GCobb…I’m with you on this and if you want a Brian DAwkins type of player in the 1st round well then like me Barron would be the pick.

Draft Barron Reid…if he is there at 13 trade with the CArds to make sure you get him…it will only probably cost you an extra 4-5th pick.

Schiller, what do you mean by saying a “roster doesn’t get you to the superbowl”…aren’t they the ones that play in the games that get you there (which is why i’m not a fan of Reid since he is head of everything when it comes to the players that make up this team which always blow up in his face because they cant play with good teams…either let Reid go or bring in a DC that has total control and say on that side of the ball)

vinnietheevictor
vinnietheevictor
April 19, 2012 10:34 am

“Case in point: The steelers are reportedly looking to get Dontari Poe.” You seem to know that he’ll be selected by the Steelers.

Are you channelling Adele? Rumour has it….rumour has it….

paulman
paulman
April 19, 2012 10:43 am

Utilizing the skills,talents and analysis of Draft and Free-Agent Prospects of DL Coach Washburn and Secondary Coach Todd Bowles can really help in this area since Coach AR has always been an Offensive Guy first, it’s just what he is… The huge mistake that Coach AR and the Eagles Front Office made was not having a real sucession plan in place when JJ was first diagnosed with his Illness.. Coach AR out way too much on Sean MCdermott who was overwhelmed from the get go.. Meanwhile 2-3 seasons go by and there was no one experienced to really assist Coach AR and young GM Roseman in helping to identify Defensive players that fit best with their Schemes, etc,etc.. Now in 2011 & 2012 we see the result of failing to address the Safety/LB’s with the right players an overall better talent..
The JJ to McDermott to Castillo is ancient history now, so moving forward, utilizing key Experienced Coaches like Washburn and Bowles should have determine a better blue print of the type of players the Eagles will want to bring into their porgram..

larrwd
larrwd
April 19, 2012 10:52 am

T.Y. hilton and devon wylie both visited the eagles…

pheags88
pheags88
April 19, 2012 11:03 am

Paulman, to me the hiring of Juan Castillo is on a parallel level with the hiring of Eddie Jordan.

navyeaglefan
navyeaglefan
April 19, 2012 11:08 am

Rocko – that is flat out false and incorrect that defensive ‘playmakers’ were brought in during Ray Rhodes era – FALSE – go look at pro football reference.com and look at the starting rosters for the last year Rhodes was here and the 2004 super bowl team – I have repeatedly posted the starters on D for the 2004 SB and how they got here – only 1 common name (Brian Dawkins) try doing a little research before acting like such a little lamb and following the whiners and bitchers down the path of everything Reid is evil –

for example – why don;t you actually let the draft happen instead of bitching how bad it is going to be – for allthe bitching – last years draft produced two players on the all-rookie team and the foundation for the O Line for years to come –

Why don;t you actually give Graham a chance to show up at camp before declaring him a failure – HUGE difference between voicing your opinion and being a bitch – relax your balls! LEt the draft happen – I saw a mock that had them getting Couples at 15 –

gmcliff
gmcliff
April 19, 2012 11:12 am

Navy I saw the same mock….I really think Coples is their guy.

jphalines
jphalines
April 19, 2012 11:33 am

Do the eagles have to go defense heavy in the draft? Absolutely yes! It was the offense that coundln’t score in the second half last year to win games. Vick is a good qb that can not win 3-4 playoff games without help. He needs another big WR and TE to help him score this year. I’m a Floyd guy, but WR are always very risky first round picks. I just want to see a big WR and another good TE for the opener, it’s AR job to find the best way to do it. I’de be happy with Plax (hate him personally) and trade up to the top of the second round if 6’6″ TE Fleener is availiable.
Listen to the defensive coaches input on who they like and act on it.

Dr. Bridge
Dr. Bridge
April 19, 2012 11:34 am

navy-

thank you for being the voice of reason … you are always the only one that posts anything worth a crap on this message board

paulman
paulman
April 19, 2012 12:04 pm

The Good Doctor is back, How’s everything going Dr Bridge…
We definitely need more voices of Reason on here..WHat players you like in the Draft..

paulman
paulman
April 19, 2012 12:56 pm

Couple of Notes

— Buffalo BIlls are the 2nd Team to have publicly state that CB Janoris Jenkins is off their Draft Board due to “Character Concerns (The Lions stated the same thing 2 weeks ago and both teams could use a quality CB too)
— OT Mike Adams of Ohio State reportedly failed his Pot Screen Test from the INdy COmbine which will most likely make him drop from a late 1st ROunder to a 3rd Rounder and possible later… This is the 3rd Incident since 2009 with Adams concerning poor decision, Marijuana possesion charges which we dropped after he served a 2 Game suspension and receiving Illegal benefits in 2011 in which he served a 5 game suspensions
Some Mocks had the Lions,Steelers and Giants as possibly interested in the OT but you can take these teams off the board for similar to the Eagles, they generally stay away from Draft Picks with questionalble character issues..

paulman
paulman
April 19, 2012 1:04 pm

Forgot to mention that Patriots LT Matt Light is reportedly set to announce his retirement from the Team and the NFL.. Light is a 11 Year veteran and was originally a 2nd Round PIckand started 153 games over his career and made the Pro-Bowl 3 Times
Last years Top Pick Nate Solder is expected to replace Light at LT

lionsden
lionsden
April 19, 2012 1:13 pm

I think this article is a bit premature… I preface my comments with: how do you replace a legend like Jim Johnson? The answer is: you don’t. That being said, it was AR that brought JJ to the Eagles so let’s start by giving credit where credit is due. It’s been 3 seasons since JJ has been our DC. The Eagles are in a transitional period. The first replacement for JJ failed and was replaced fairly quickly. AR deserves credit for realizing the team needed to go in a different direction than the one McDermot was lead it in. This will be Castillo’s second season as DC so he deserves a chance especially with the way the defense closed out the season. AR is an offensive guru much like Bill Walsh and Mike Holmgren whose teams were noted for great offense. He’s not a defensive specialist but has an eye for talented coaches. I think when JC becomes more comfortable as DC and has more time to implement his system we will see the ” defensive” identity this article is referring to.

Having said all that, Andy Reid only needs to win a SB and he will go down as one of the greatest HC’s in history and his critics to some extent be silenced.

jbird
jbird
April 19, 2012 1:27 pm

Navy….Trotter was also from the RR era just to make a correction on the ’04 defense.

pheags88
pheags88
April 19, 2012 1:47 pm

Lionsden, let him silence me like you say…it will be one of the best days of my life…You see I love the Eagles, I just don’t like Andy Reid. I think he is nothing but just a good coach. Nowhere near great if you ask me since he absolutely sucks in regard to the whole other half of the football team, terrible in-game adjustment coach (probably one of the worst in the entire league), and has a faulty concept of drafting players on D (and somewhat O) with his smallish, fastball prototype players which has proven to fail every year.

You see I despise the guy as a coach because I simply do not think he is good enough to win my team a super bowl. This man has had more than enough time and fair chances to get it done and has failed every time to do so. (yes winning the SB is hard, however its not like we have only given him a window of 5 years or something). SO why not give someone else a try and see what happens. Too many fans are scared about losing Reid and I don’t get why…open your eyes a little more ppl he is far from a football God.

jbird
jbird
April 19, 2012 1:56 pm

So we know that they are not going to draft a FB, RB, TE, G/C, PK, P, PR, KR with the 15th pick. They also will not draft a QB unless they move up. Obviously drafting a QB would be a huge mistake. Vick will pack it in if they do that because he feels he has AT LEAST five years left in the tank and that would mean they were not committed to him for any more than three tops (and most likely just one). So that would destroy this season and it would mean that AR was coach for life. So I think we can rule out QB. That leaves OT, WR, DT, DE, LB, CB or S. Seven possible positions.
I for one do not want to see an OT. That is like drafting a QB to me on some level because it is completely future oriented for a team that made just one present oriented move in FA. Where are the idiots that said there was still time in FA? Crickets. Thats what I thought. Obviously they are planning on filling the remaining roster spots with their draft picks. For those of you not keeping track that’s two back up OL, #2 RB, back up DL, starting LB, back up CB, back up S, KR. Thats eight players with nine picks. Wow! They better pick correctly huh?
So I am cool with any of the other six positions they may decide to draft. WR would be my second least favorite choice because that is not a current need and I don’t think you draft a WR unless he’s the next Megatron given what we have. I want to give Maclin one more year, but if he doesn’t make the PB this year he’s a bust. Not saying he is not a good player. I’m just saying when a top twenty pick that was not a reach and regarded as maybe the best WR in his class has not made the PB after four years that’s a failed pick. I don’t think Navy or Schiller could dispute that. So I really don’t want a WR. There is real bust potential with these DLs. Aside from Cox I would be very concerned about picking any of them. Kuechly is the only LB worth a top twenty pick so I would not be happy about a different LB at 15. Impossible to imagine they would do that either. I would be most happy with a Safety or CB with our top pick as long as that pick was #15 or earlier. Would not be happy with trading down for a lesser player at the position. We don’t need more second and third round picks. Look at the AR era history of third round picks (especially recently). Ewww!! DRC is a very uncertain player. Talented but also lazy and unmotivated. You don’t give up a super talented CB if you are happy with him. He was always a questionable acquisition. First, he won’t play unless he starts. He won’t play unless the chips are up, so the worse the team, the worse he will play. And you just have to hope Bowles can maximize him. Most likely he is out after this year.
My gut tells me CB is the pick this year. This is an important position to the FO. You have a fairly immediate need there in 2013 and it hedges us against DRC playing like shit or ending up with a Dimitrius Patterson situation should Nnamdi or DRC have a catastrophic injury. Thoughts anyone????

pheags88
pheags88
April 19, 2012 2:03 pm

Jbird…I actually think DRC will have a pretty good year. The guy will want to go all out for his new contract…I think NA and DRC can be great at the cornerback position as long as you have the right personal people around them. Guys who can straight up tackle at the Safety and Linebacker position. Obviously last year we didn’t have a safety or linebacker who could tackle anybody which killed us. Get BArron in here at Safety. Wish they had added another proven LB in free agency but add Ryans will help the middle. I go Lavonte David in 2nd round who I think would fit a 4-3 really well and because the guy plays nasty and can tackle.

paulman
paulman
April 19, 2012 2:04 pm

If DT Fletcher Cox is gone off the Board at #15
Then I like Eagles to select CB Stephon Gillmore who can compete for a Startes Spot/Nickel Spot by 2013..

sullybleedsgreen
sullybleedsgreen
April 19, 2012 2:25 pm

If the Eagles take CB Gilmore with the 15th pick he will be competing for the nickle spot this year. Cox, Coples , Barron and Gilmore would seem to be their targets and probably in that order

lionsden
lionsden
April 19, 2012 2:31 pm

@pheags88… we share the same frustration. We just differ on our opinions of Reid. He might be just a “good” coach as you put it but that “good” coach is the best the Eagles have ever had bar none. I mean he has the best wining percentage of any Eagles coach in recent history and he’s the only one who has a winning record in the playoffs in recent history. What amazes me is how much hate Reid gets in spite of what he’s accomplished. But this is part and parcel with success… after a while fans get tired of only winning Divisional titles and not being able to make it to or win the SB. So to some extent Reid is being held hostage by his past success.

There is one glaring mistake that I can honestly say IMO has been the eyesore in the Andy Reid era and that is the lack of a true #1 receiver. To what extent he’s to blame for that, I don’t know. McNabb is criticized for his lack of accuracy and QB skills prior to having a true #1 and then when one is brought in he has a career year and the Eagles make it to the SB. I wouldn’t blame the loss of that SB on Reid. IMO It’s partly McNabb shrinking in the big moments and partly the Patriots cheating. But Reid did what he was supposed to do in guiding this team to the SB.

Having said all that… I think this is going to be a banner year for the Eagles.

Stevo
Stevo
April 19, 2012 2:38 pm

jbird- i am on the same page as you with your thoughts. My gut tells me its either DT, LB, or the CB. I find it hard to think they will pick a LB in the first but you never know. If i were a betting man id say it was a DT or they will trade down. I just dont see them drafting a Safety.

Stevo
Stevo
April 19, 2012 2:47 pm

G, as far as what you wrote- I agree.

Ive said this 1,000,000 times before but the change came in 3 steps.
1) We needed more turnovers- they started to change around the time that Asam came in. They wanted more strips and more int’s (what team doesnt), The problem was that they didnt focus on tackles or hits anymore.
2) I didnt always like the J.J style of D- it became so predicatable and weak against deep throws BUT…. at least you knew they they they would have heat (see dawkins, trot, douglas). Those guys OOZED green. Guys like Q and asam have not had that heart. Sheldon had it….. then became pissed about his deal. This is changing with some of the guys they have brought in (Jenkins, Ryans, perhaps nnamdi)
3) Reid has kept his eye on GB. They air it out amazingly. Who needs a D when you can score 85 points? The eagles D is on the field ALL DAY LONG. no time to rest….. no time to recover… no dominant run game to eat up clock and keep the D fresh.

this brings us to where we are today. add to this mix the fact that we have changed D coaches and such and its easy to see what the prob is.

Stevo
Stevo
April 19, 2012 2:48 pm

* heart- not heat

paulman
paulman
April 19, 2012 2:53 pm

I agree Sully and think the 1st 3 Players you listed will be gone before 15th Pick (Cox to Rams or Chiefs , Coples to Panthers or Cardinals & Barron to the Cowboys)
I see 2 Players dropping outof the Top 10 that we have seen on many Mocks
WR J Blackmon and OLB Melvin Ingram.. I don’t think the Eagles would be interested in either of these players but who knows… OLB Ingram will be a very good player but probably better suited for a 3-4 Scheme and built very much like Brandon Graham
A real ballsy move would be the Eagles to trade DE Brandon Graham to the Patriots for one of their 1st Round PIcks (27 or 31) but I don’t see the Eagles pulling the trigger, all I know is Belecheck was very high on Graham when he was coming out of Collge and the Patriots need about 2-3 Pass rushers after losing DE’s Andre CArter to injury & Mark Anderson to Free-Agency who got them 20 sacks between them, the rest of the Team only had 20 so they need some pass-rushers…

navyeaglefan
navyeaglefan
April 19, 2012 2:54 pm

Dr B – well thanks – appreciate that – just keep repeating – DE/DT/LB KR/PR

then sign Bell in Free Agency –

Jbird – Trotter is the debatable one – Trotter left the Birds and was brought back to the Birds in FA from the skins who let him go cause of bad knees –

but a key word was starter – Trott was not listed as a starter the last year Rhodes was here – I think he started starting (wow – awkward wording) in Ried’s first year –

but it VERY much goes against the term ‘Playmaker’s from the Rhodes era’

Frank22
Frank22
April 19, 2012 3:04 pm

Eagles will not take Barron in my opinion.These are NFL coaches who dont like to be wrong. That is exactly what they would be doing if they took MBarron. They invested in the last two years, two second round picks on safety. I think the eagles are comfortable at safety. Again, I need to clarify, this is what I think the eagles are thingking.

Dr. Bridge
Dr. Bridge
April 19, 2012 3:11 pm

paulman, hope you’re well man! After leaving Philly, I grew up right outside of the Charlotte area, probably close to where you are at …

I am all for drafting Luke Kuechly. LB has been a position of weakness for us since Trotter left (the first time) and with Ryans set to take over the middle for the next few years, Kuechly could play an outside position and take over in the middle if anything ever happned to Ryans (lets hope not! I am also a big Fletcher Cox fan as well, but I don’t think he drops that far. If I were Carolina, I would snatch him up. I know eveyone keeps saying that we need a big DT, but if Jenkins plays as well as he did last year and Dixon can come back healthy, we are set up front. Patterson and Landry are good backups.

The next question is … Is Asante an eagle next year? If the answer is no, we should try to take a CB in the first round instead of DT or LB. I feel like our safety position could improve and hope that Nate Allen comes into camp healthy this year. He knows that system now and needs to be a force in our division … Will that happen??? Who knows!!! I still don’t know what to think about Kurt Coleman and would be hesitant drafting Barron in the first round. In all honesty, I really think that the eagles should have taken Earl Thomas two years ago … Woulda, Shoulda, Coulda …

Frank22
Frank22
April 19, 2012 3:11 pm

Do you think reid could resist taking an offessive player with the first 3 picks?

I believe they are going to go DT or DE with the 15th pick. They should use a second round on a LB and I have a funny feeling they are going to replace CHall or upgrade the TE position in the second round.

Monolith
Monolith
April 19, 2012 3:28 pm

There you go Navy! say it once more.

Dang how many times must that myth be put to rest before people feel stupid saying it! Just wondering thats all. I mean we all know that that Ray Rhodes statement is Bulla Shitta, but people keep saying it.

Plus that fact even if it were true Dear Mr. Rhodes didn’t do jack shat with those players, Reid and J. Johnson got them to play top five defense ball so there you go.

I Liked Rhodes but he is no where close to the coach Reid was or is, and if you are hanging your hat on Rhodes then I have lost about 34% worth of respect for ya (Who ever you are).

paulman
paulman
April 19, 2012 3:55 pm

Sounds good Doctor…
I live up here in BooneNc up in the High Country which is about 2 hours North right up Hwy 321 from Charlotte/Gastonia.. It’s a beautiful part of the State/Country…I was living down in Concord/Conelius areas in the mid 90’s which were small communities back then, bus have since just exploded with homes,businesses,traffic and the like.. My Plan is to move down towards the Beach area once my kids are up out down towards Wilmington,NC area (Southport,Oak Island,Kure Beach areas)

vinnietheevictor
vinnietheevictor
April 19, 2012 4:12 pm

jphalines brings up an interesting point. Why is it all D all the time around here? The comment, “It was the offense that coundln’t score in the second half last year to win games.” cannot be lost on the team’s FO.

How might you evaluate a hypothetical QB who threw only 5 tds in the 2nd half over an entire season? (2 in a meaningless final game where the other team packed it in before the coin flip)? You might think of smeone like Rex Grossman. You might think that this is a position in need of an upgrade.

Of course, you might say that this is taken out of context….that throwing only 5 tds in the second half was an aberration….perhaps…..but what if you then recognized the same hypothetical QB has thrown only 38 of 110 TDs in in the second half over his career? 35%. You might recognize a pattern. You might know that most quality starting NFL QBs come in around 50/50. You might start thinking about Mark Sanchez. You might think you neded an upgrade.

Or how might you evaluate a hypothetical QB who after 2 years with a team, while trailing or tied in the 4th, had thrown just one 4th Q td to tie take the lead in any game? You might think his name was Colt McCoy. You might think you needed an upgrade.

How might you evaluate a QB who did not throw 1 td in the 4th Q to tie or take the lead at any time in 2011? Not once. You might think his name was Blaine Gabbert. You might think you need an upgrade.

Of course, you might think that this was just an aberration, a “bad year.” You might blame WR drops or fumbles. But you might also look back and see that the same QB has thrown for a td to tie a game or take the lead an astonishingly low 6x in the 4th Q over his career (92 starts – 111 games). You might start thinking of Bruce Gradkowski. You might think the position needs an upgrade.

You might also recognize that this same QB has never done it in the playoffs. In fact, this player has never thrown a 4th Q td in the playoffs. Period. You might be thinking the position needs an upgrade.

But what if this was a “running QB” who scores that way. You might find he has… 4x this Qb has rushed for a td to tie the game or take the lead in the 4th, That brings the total up to 10 4th Q scores to tie or take the lead in 111 games. Still, you might think this position was in need of an upgrade.

You might compare this hypothetical QB to other QBs in the division and see that Little Eli has thrown a td to tie or take the lead 26x in his career (119 starts). 2x in the playoffs. And Tony Romo…who has the label of being a notorious choke artist who doesn’t come through in the 4th Q, has done it 14x (in 77 games)

Could you imagine if this Qbs name was David Carr? He’s be run out of town. But if the QBs name happens to be Mike Vick, well, for whatever reason, as Jbird so eloquently puts it, “Obviously drafting a QB would be a huge mistake.”

DT, DL or LB, CB and QB out of the first 4 picks. All positions require an upgrade post haste.

SONGSRME2
SONGSRME2
April 19, 2012 4:24 pm

Trent Cole a late round shot in the dark is better then every defensive player the Eagles have drafted in the last 8 years. what does that say about our pathetic evaluation of defensive talent?

BirdoBeamen
BirdoBeamen
April 19, 2012 4:28 pm

Just for Songs (and any other Vontaze nut gobbler)

Mayock calls Vontaze Burfict a “non-draftable kid”
Posted by Evan Silva on April 19, 2012, 3:31 PM EDT
Getty ImagesArizona State linebacker Vontaze Burfict began “draft season” rated as a first-round pick, at least according to January mock drafts from guys like ESPN’s Todd McShay. Three months later, there’s legitimate doubt about whether Burfict will be drafted at all.

NFL Network’s Mike Mayock doesn’t think there’s a whole lot left to talk about. He has Burfict rated as an undrafted free agent.

“I put his tape on with absolutely zero preconceived notions,” Mayock explained in a Thursday conference call with media. “I watched three tapes and really didn’t like him as a football player.

“I think he’s a non-draftable kid. For me, he’s a free agent.”

The common misconception with Burfict is that his problems occurred during the pre-draft process, when Burfict bombed at the Combine and again at his Pro Day. As Mayock has explained, however, Burfict’s fall occurred during games. He’s just not a good player.

pheags88
pheags88
April 19, 2012 5:01 pm

Vinnie, Obviously the dislike you have for Vick is equal to what I have for Reid. When it comes to Vick, my opinion is that I don’t love him or hate him. If i rated him in my own personal list I would probably have him at around my 10 mark.

My question to you is with all the facts you point to in regard to Vicks deficiencies shouldn’t Reid be right there in brackets? He is the one that lets the man throw the ball like he is Brees, Rogers, Manning, or Brady..Fact is he obviously is not which you would def agree with. My issue is just then why does reid have him throwing the ball 30plus a game…I would call 20 passes a game with Vick and nothing more unless I absolutely had too. I would get another solid back (i think Hightower is out there or Addai) and let him and Shady be the primary feature of the offensive workload. (and that system can still easily be successful in todays NFL just see 49ers and ravens who could have easily been the Superbowl matchup if it wasn’t for pure bad luck in those 2 games).

paulman
paulman
April 19, 2012 5:04 pm

most obeservors who followed Arizona Football have stated that Burfict peaked in his 2nd Year as a Sophomore and that is play,conditioning, attitude have gonce downhil the last 2 Seasons,…
Songs wants to blame his former Coach D Erickson.. Burfict is a bum ass like Songs enjoys saying.. He is not very bright,very well liked or respected in and around the Arizona Football Program and burned most of his bridges by being an Ass.. I researched hime late December and started relaying some issues and concerns that he was bad news and Burfict has the poor Conbine,INterviews & Pro WOrkouts..
I read where some of the Canadien Football Teams have taken Burfict on their Draft Boards too.. But Song’s will stand his ground stating that the Eagles are stupid and losers and can’t possible win a Super Bowl without Drafting Vontaeze “They call me the Breeze” Burfict..

Stevo
Stevo
April 19, 2012 5:12 pm

yawn- ok vinnie, we shall play the game 1 MORE FLIPPING TIME….. we had 3 choices….

1) Dmac- this was my choice BUT WOW has he fallen.
2) Kolb- this was your choice BUT WOW has he fallen… oh wait.. he had never really risen.
3) Vick- this was Andys choice. Hes the only one of the 3 that has a starting job. and Kolb was rreally really close to being let go.

what were we going to do? Grab Favre?

pdiddy
pdiddy
April 19, 2012 5:27 pm

Wow this is gcobb veteran day, I read all the post and decided to let you guys duke it out today. There are a lot of good post today gentlemen.

vinnietheevictor
vinnietheevictor
April 19, 2012 6:25 pm

Stevo…If we had kept Kolb we would have had 4 1st rounders over the past 2 drafts. Kolb would not be the QB at this point, some high draft pick would be.

larrwd
larrwd
April 19, 2012 6:44 pm

Im sorrry ,but burfict is a play maker.. I think if we dont take burfict and he falls to the 4th or 5th round we are going to regret it..

Rocko
Rocko
April 19, 2012 6:59 pm

Navy – My balls are very relaxed buddy. You and a couple other AR nuthuggers on here can keep on waiting another 5 years or so for a Sb if it makes you happy. After going on 14 years of the same thing and you all can’t see the same ol same ol, then more power to you.

Ray Rhodes defensive draft picks: Dawkins, ND Kalu, Mamula and Hollis Thomas; some pretty good defensive guys selected during the Rhodes era. I’m sure he would have drafted better defensive guys on this team since AR has been here the last 14 years.

Pheags88 – thanks for the being the voice of reason on this thread today. I feel ya.

BirdoBeamen
BirdoBeamen
April 19, 2012 7:28 pm

Lawrrd, anybody can look like a playmaker on their own highlight tape

larrwd
larrwd
April 19, 2012 7:50 pm

I just think hes a steall in the 5th or 6th birdo..

navyeaglefan
navyeaglefan
April 19, 2012 8:59 pm

Rocko – If you say they are relaxed – I will believe you – they seem awlful tensed up though. I mean I don;t know what magical power you think you have that by ‘not supporting’ or determining how long you will wait – but lets be honest – we are all going to wait the EXACT same amount of time – so its up to you to chose how you want to spend that time waiting – you want to get onboard the prorgram – Reid is the coach, Castillo is the DC, and Roseman is the GM – that’s how its going to be this year and hope the Eagles win the Superbowl – or ya wanna bitch and rehash everything that went wrong (Songs and BSM always need little friends to jointhem in their whine fests – Drummer douchbag only posts as Lonewolf 11 over on Philly.com these days) …

as the old Stills song goes – The Eagle flies with the dove, and if you can’t be with the one you love, honey, love the one your with! DOn’t be angry, don’t be sad, don;t sit crying over good times youve had –

you knopw the rest brother – and if you can’t relax’m with some 70s music… well hell, I can’t help you partner – maybe some Bob Marley – Don;t worry, bout a thing…. cause evry little thing , gonna be alright…

lionsden
lionsden
April 19, 2012 9:52 pm

Eagles GM reiterates organization’s support for Michael Vick

“We have so much confidence in Michael Vick leading our team,” Roseman told reporters. “The way that he works and the determination he has, we’re all in with Michael. Michael is still a young quarterback (31 years old). He looks great to me. He’s healthy and he’s determined. We feel very lucky to have him as our franchise quarterback.”

www nfl com/news/story/09000d5d82874b89/article/eagles-gm-reiterates-organizations-support-for-michael-vick?module=HP11_headline_stack

larrwd
larrwd
April 19, 2012 9:58 pm

vick and desean are going to have huge years.. this is the peak year for the offense …defense.. who knows?

Stevo
Stevo
April 19, 2012 10:37 pm

ok vinnie- i will do this again….im bored…

so…. we should have went with kolb (knowing he sucked)- and given up on at least 2 seasons so we can get a draft pick? that sounds like the kinda crap losers do. im not interested- glad the eagles were not either. PLUS- we would have had to pay klob top dollar..

Rocko
Rocko
April 19, 2012 10:37 pm

navyeaglefan – That’s all I’m saying buddy; I’m chillin and relaxin like everybody else and I’m all in and waiting like the rest of us man. They’re going to draft whoever they want no matter what any of us think. I’m just going with the flow.

larrwd – Yes, I also believe they both will have a monster year and will cause the rest of the team to amp up their playmaking ability – good stuff buddy.