I was told by an NFL source about Joe Banner asking a public relations expert why he was so hated by Philadelphia sports fans. He was a genius when it came to the salary cap, but he couldn’t understand why fans didn’t like his “it’s all about the bottom line” style.
In my opinion, things finally came to a head during the Eagles meetings after the 2011 season. Eagles owner Jeffrey Lurie took Banner’s advice about not continuing to do the same thing and expecting a different result.
Lurie decided that he wanted to change the face of the Philadelphia Eagles. He saw the way the Phillies were loved and was tired of his team being the most hated sports team in Philadelphia.
This meant removing President Joe Banner as one of the faces of the organization. It also meant demanding that head coach Andy Reid become more media-friendly and available.
Reid couldn’t have been happy about the DeSean Jackson contract situation. I think he feels it could have been avoided.
The Eagles resigned all of their players and they were willing to do it without “winning” each negotiation. They were more willing to give in to their players, especially if they had been productive. Reid was on the side of not having a war with each and every player during the negotiations.
Any survey of Eagles fans or Philadelphia sports fans would show that Banner is one of the most disliked individuals in Philadelphia sports. I’ve never ceased to be amazed by the vitriol I would hear from fans at the mention of Joe Banner’s name. He seemed to always say the wrong things or the right things in the wrong way.
Banner has always been a public relations disaster.
It was always about the numbers with Banner. It’s one of the main reasons that the company is worth more than a billion dollars right now. He didn’t care how people felt about him or his business style, if the numbers were right.
If the numbers weren’t right, he didn’t care who the team was saying good-bye to and that included beloved Eagles safety Brian Dawkins. Banner didn’t mind being the bad guy, in fact he kind of liked it, but his friend and boss Lurie, hated being hated.
Lurie is a billionaire now. Thanks to Banner he has all the money he needs, but he also wants to be liked. He doesn’t want to own the most hated sports team in the city. He wants to be liked by the city and the fans.
Banner had some tremendous achievements during his tenure with the Eagles, but a good public image isn’t one of them and it ultimately cost him his job.
I also believe that the failure to get DJax signed last year and the HUGE distratction it became, was a big part of the decision. Seeing how Roseman was able to get Mathis, DJax and Shadey signed without any bad feelings coming out of negotiations, showed Laurie that there was a better way to run the team.
Banner was a lightning rod for the frustrations of many Eagles fans. I believe that the LA Times story from March was accurate regarding a power struggle within the organization. Reid will have very few excuses for failure this year, but there is no telling what Jeff will do. But truthfully, to think that Jeff would choose Andy over Joe is something I would have never thought would happen either, so who knows.
“He seemed to always say the wrong things or the right things in the wrong way.” Great line GC. Like “Gold standard,” for winning the salary cap bowl every year. Like “The definition of insanity, is Doing the same things, time after time, & expecting a different result.” Then doing the same idiotic things for 2 years, afterwards. Also, always comparing himself, to great organizations like Pittsburgh, NE & past greats, when winning stugots. Good riddance!!! No big loss. His job is basically obsolete now, with the new CBA, with a cap floor & celing, in place.
I’m really feeling a change will soon come.
“the chin”
I see Cowher in our near future….A quest for a chip begins next season with Cowher and his defensive coaching staff in place.
Marty can stay as Coordinator if he’s willing to commit more to the run.
Not IMO Songs……Cowher took what, 14 years to win a SB with the Steelers? He has been out of the game for 4 years now….doubt that Washburn would stick around, so all of the momentum we have with the D-line would probably end. I am not a Reid fan, and would welcome his exit, but I don’t believe Cowher is the right guy.
I doubt very much Cowher ever returns to Coaching and the Eagles would not be a good Roster for him to work with from an Offensive & Defensive point of View..
I think Cowher would return only if he could Coach the NY Giants or Cowboys
and would have to have total control which he would get from the GIants but not a meddling OWner like Jerry Jones, He’s done Coaching and the 20 Hour Days.. As former Coaches get more removed from the Day-to-day life of being a Coach, it’s becomes harder and harder for them to return.. I don’t think we will see Cowher, Dungy, ever return to Coaching for they have growing families, their Kids are young adults and getting married and having their own kids.. I think Gruden would return but if it’s not by next Season, then I think his time has passed too.. It’s a tough grind and really puts a lot of stress and time committment on a family and some huys who have been succesful just don’t need that rush or ego of competition and being in conotrol at that kind of level anymore… These Guys (Mariucci and others) all have pretty good gigs, working for the Networks,NFL Channel… Some do some paid motivational speaking engagements on the side, Run Camps (Dungy,Gruden,Mariucci) so these guys are doing pretty well for themselves..
Brian Billick will be our next coach. Bank on it. He is close with Lurie (from Billicks own mouth). You heard it here first.
Cowher ain’t taking a job again, unless he’s running the show. He was penny pinched, & had $#!T QB’s for 15 years, before he got a SB with Ben. Do you really think he wants to come here, with no power, & a left handed, glorified Kordell Stewart? I HIGHLY DOUBT IT!!!
D – we can;t have Billick – he is the only announcer I can stand to listen to calling a football game…. he actually says thing that matter, points out key areas of the game, and makes it more enjoyable – if he gos back to coaching and they put Joe Theisman in the both you are going to get an envelope filled with baby powder…… (just kidding – though I was IMMUNIZED against Anthrax!)
Navy, I think Billick is 1 of the brightest, most knowledgeable, football minds, out there. He just makes TOO much sense. He won a SB, with Trent “Freaking” Dilfer & mediocre targets. Oh yeah & EHMM…EHMM, a great DF. I hear ya, with Theisman. TOP 3 worlds worse, of all time analysts. BTW, does it make me a bad person, to want to pay someone, to do a Tanya Harding, on him? BWAHAHAHA!!!!
I see Coach AR signing a 3 Year Extension thru 2016 Season and his key Coaching Assitants signing deals thru the 2015 Season.. I really don’t see a new Coach being hired .. in fact I see Coach AR maybe becoming a minority-partner in Ownership (if he’s not already) .. He will remain in PHiladelphia for as long as he wants, thr Organization has some new momentum after an excellent off-season and Draft.. The Sky’s the limit for the Eagles not only for 2012 but also for the forseeable future…
No it doesn’t make you a bad person Dcar unless you were trying to hook up
with Tonya Harding.. Then you would have to be removed from GCobb..
Wormtounge has finally been cast out of Rohan.
This may sound off the wall but I think Lurie is really sick of not winning. I think he is sick of being second banana to the Phils and has seen how public perception of them is completely different than that of the Eagles because 1) they won a title and 2) they have spent money. He could no longer ignore what was happening right across the street. I think Banner kept him blinded for a long time as he made them both filthy rich. To that effect, Jeffrey followed Joe’s lead because the guy was making him. . . . filthy rich. But then I think a couple things happened. First, as the trophy case remained empty while his pockets were over stuffed with all the lute the Eagles have brought him, Lurie begin to question the “business model” and begin to realize that this model was never going to win a championship and that he really had enough money. So if he wasn’t losing his shirt, he would rather win a title than get richer. Banner got richer as Lurie got richer so he had no interest in decreasing the bottom line by actually using the money on players. He wanted to continue to get richer so they became at odds. So the actual sportsman in Lurie has finally emerged and pushed Joe aside.
The second thing is that after years of success as a coach, Reid finds himself on the hot seat. I believe that after years of being a good soldier and towing the company line laid out by Banner, Reid stepped up. Banner brought this on in part by criticizing Reid. And the rest was Reid’s survival instinct. He finally stopped towing the line and stated the obvious which is something like this: “I have been very successful with average talent. But the reality is that talent wins titles and you guys have not given me enough talent. You don’t retain my guys and you do not get the free agents I could use to take us to the next level. So if you question my ability, how about you actually give me what I need and then we can see what I can or can’t do.”
Just a theory of course, but I actually believe this to be pretty close to reality.
The above comments are not meant to say I think Reid is a great coach or GM. But I have long thought that the Eagles valued wealth over championships. I think when you look at what they have really had and scrutinize the rosters over the last 15 years, the talent level has really been average. Yeah they had PB players. Everyone does! Even the Jags. They did not have an abundance of talent though and they were consistently thin in certain crucial spots. Look, one of the best lines I ever heard on the Eagles was this line by Hugh Douglas on WIP one night. His simple statement was: “The Eagles just do not have enoguh ballers on their squad.” He could not have been more correct.
The Eagles did not fail just because of Reid or McNabb. They failed because of a lack of talent. And we all know coaching can win lots of regular season games. But what happened as we got closer to the brass ring? We lost year in and year out to more talented teams. Now I do not believe that talent is an excuse now. This roster is loaded. There are very few teams that stack up with the Eagles on paper. I mean very few. Like less than a handful. Jason Peters is absolutely irrelevant as an excuse. Is David Diehl a stud LT? How about Max Starks? We do not need that to win a title. We need a more dominant defense and an offense that is relatively consistent. And we have the talent for that right now. The coaching could still very well fail. But this team will not fail because of lack of talent. Andy has what he needs now. So lets see what he’s really got.
JB – excellent point my man – Lurie is sick of not winning..
all the (false) comments about ‘just good enough’ and all that are BS – anyone who has done any reading or studying of leader/leadership, there are certain ingrained qualities in those people –
you do NOT get to be a Billionairre without an exceptional ego – Lurie (this is my opinion fromthis point forward) hates the fact Kraft has SBs and he doesn;t – he hates the fact other owners have rings and he doesn;t.. much like MaCarther hated the fact Nimitz had 5 stars and he had not yet got his in the mail – he orders an extra star made on his 4 stars..
all the talk about cheap… the team would be worth much more with a SB –
JB – that was an outstanding post.. I think Banner had a ‘methodology’ that worked for a while and peeked, but due to his loyalty, didn;t want to move on from Banner.. I think they talked and Banner – out of loyalty to Lurie – looked for something to let his frined off the hook..
let’s see how it works out.. but if this off season is any indication.. I see a situation (a storm brewing if you will) where we caould see a sustained surge like we had 2002-2004..
the key – the play of Mr Vick… he plays ‘smart’ this coul dbe a fun few years..
DCar….Cowher would never come here because they are not designed at all for what he likes to do as a coach. In fact they are designed the complete opposite of what kind of team Cowher would want to coach. Plus they have way too many candy asses he would have to get rid of. This is not a tough group of guys. How many of these guys could play in Pittsburgh? Not many.
Navy…Yes playing smart is key for Vick. But the defense has to bring it home. They have to hold leads and make big stops. They have to win when we can’t break twenty points. I have always found the defense to be deficient. I used to blame JJ at times but later came to my senses and realized the talent level was always the root cause of our failures. And this has always been Banner’s fault. But now if they fail it will be Juan’s fault and (by extension) Andy’s fault. I find it difficult to believe that Nate Allen, Ryans, Kendricks, Graham, Curry, Boykin, DRC and Cox all actually suck and this team will not get any better.
Graham actually probably does suck.
I cannot wait for preseason!! So many players I am excited to see. I think I may be the most excited about Kendricks. I just have a man crush on him already for some reason. Next, I am excited about Boykin. I never liked Hanson and I can’t stand our consistently shitty return game. I am very interested in the Brown/Polk battle. I like the Cooper/McNutt battle. I like the Hall/Johnson battle. The Hunt/Tapp battle. The Hughes/Lindley battle. The Rolle/Chaney battle. The Coleman/Jarrett battle. So much to analyze.
jbird – what’s your beef with Graham? Is it not drafting that safetey instead? If that’s the case, while it explains your opinion, it says nothing of the player Graham can and will be. Fact is, Washburn likes the kid and I put a lot of stock into that myself.
JBird actually it really does sound of the wall, IMO….with the personnel brought in over the past two seasons, I think Lurie is very happy with the talent he has…Fact is, Banner does not coach the team, he went out and assisted in delivering talent, now its up to the players and coaches.I don’t see what you’re saying at all…
Lets get this straight, the Eagles have been a winning Organization under Reid, actually how many other Organizations wish they had that type of success…I can name 15 or so off the top of my head…
Lack of talent is an excuse that 30 other teams can utilize if they do not win the SB….
Schill….seriously all that love and you are going to come after my one singular negative comment? What is Wash going to say? I hate him? He’s too short and stumpy to get around people? He has average burst? He should really be a 3-4 OLB? Schill I would LOVE you to be right. But we will see it on the field in a couple months. The guy is a bust.
I wanted a DE but I did not want him. I actually wanted a DE first and Nate Allen in the second round. Exact target. Swear to God. I actually wanted Derek Morgan I think. Did not want JPP either so I am no expert obviously.
jbird – love the passion and excitement. And you are right – But we will see it on the field in a couple months.
Wash could have said – he’s had a tough injury and is working back into it. We’ll see what he does in camp. But he didn’t say that – he was strongly affirmative. He went beyond an obligational coach’s response.
I am excited to want to see the Eagles Secret weapon for 2012
Mardy Gilyard…I think he will surprise many in the Return Game and as a 5th WR..
@jbird….Washburn has been pretty complimentary of Graham. I would not be suprised to see the guy have a big year for the team. It isn’t his fault where he was selected in the draft, or that he got injured. I wanted another player at that spot, but that wasn’t Graham’s fault, it was the front offices. The guy is an Eagle, he has shown the effort to…at least from all reports…get in great shape and come in with a chip on his shoulder…I say give the guy a chance this year to prove all of the doubters wrong, which would be a GREAT thing for the team.
I believe I read a few times that DL Coach Washburn worked out and coached Brandon Graham down at the Senior Bowl, while Washburn was still Coaching for the Titans and supposedly fell in love with Grahams game and was begging Titans HC J Fisher and GM to move up in the Draft to get him back in the 2010 Draft.. I am with Schiller on this one, If Washburm likes him and talks highly of him, then I believe it’s because Graham’s a talented player who can do a lot of things and be succesful in Washburn’s Scheme’s
Real….the team spent money last year because they had to. They spent money this year because Banner lost power. Before 2011, they lacked talent and did not spend ENOUGH money. You obviously just like to disagree with me. I do not think many Eagle fans would agree that Banner did a good job of acquiring and keeping talented players. He is not responsible for the draft and Andy is still accountable. I never said talent was the ONLY reason. Just like McNabb and Andy were not the ONLY reasons. For example McNabb never had any WRs. Thats talent. There were not any FA WRs on the market all those years? Sure there were. We just weren’t buying. Too costly.
Yeah, when Washburn came to Philly, he talked about how he really wanted to coach Graham and how he loved him in the draft. Unsolicited – they didn’t ask Washburn about Graham, they asked him about coming to Philly and he brought up Graham. So there goes your towing the company line thing jbird.
Schill…as an Eagle fan I certainly want you to be right. I just think the guy is a tweener. Too short and slow to be an OLB in a 3-4 and too short and stubby to be a DE in a 4-3. We shall see. If I see him up at Lehigh, I certainly won’t tell him he is too short and slow to kick the crap out of me.
Why do you think Andy kept drafting all those DL? Because Banner was not writing any checks for veterans and you NEED DL!! Andy picked crap, but they also could have just bought a guy and drafted someone else that was not a reach.
jbird, ha. I hear you. But have you noted that several DEs have been successful in the 4-3 at his size? I get the size thing but when people succeed in spite of it, I have a hard time saying it means a guy won’t be able to do it. Navy has time and time provided the facts – Graham isn’t small compared to guys who have excelled as DEs in a 4-3 recently in the NFL.
You could be right, but facts are out there to prove that you could be wrong.
Like you said – we’ll have to wait and see.
Graham’s best bet would be to gain twenty pounds and be a pass rushing specialist at DT.
Schill….if Graham can play it will just be icing on the cake because I think Curry and Cox are definitely for real. So in my little mind I have the security of not needing to depend on Graham.
@jbird….Graham played at a higher weight last year and it didn’t go well. He said it affected his speed. His nickname last year “Chunky” . He has come in this year….from all reports…ripped. I trust having him healthy and play under Washburn to get the most out of his talent.
You guys also forget what a great motivator Wash is. Part of his schtick is to be very complimentary of his guys and jack up their egos. You cannot really read too much into that. He is always very full of praise. He believes that saying those things make guys like him and play harder for him and accept his abuse when he gets in their ass. Its all a great coaches mind games.
@ jbird…I agree with your view of the D-line…..we do not NEED for Graham to have a big year for the defense to play great….however, if he does it puts us in a great position. We have a D-line that has some real strength and depth.
jb – what’s the track record of buying vets in the NFL to fill holes – overall the data says it doesn’t work that well. And the track record of drafting DL high – for all teams – it’s hit or miss. Just facts bro.
As for Banner not writting any checks for veterans…. uh… Jenkins, Landri (ok, you could say Roseman), Tapp, Darren Howard, Javon Kerse, Babin, Montae Reagor, oh I forget some others – but there were many.
Banner wrote checks for free agent vet DL. Many of them with very good track records coming in.
Washburn is known for being in their faces and on them in practice and in study….I do not believe he is know for “blowing smoke up their a$$” to inflate their egos.
greenfan….We have the best D line in the league. No ifs, ands, or buts. The Giants are very good, but we are better. Best line since White/Brown/Simmons. I have been waiting twenty years for it but now I got it.
The one true thing you did say JBird, was “I must like to disagree with you” you are 100% accurate on that one, fella! Especially when in 100% of the cases I simply just can’t agree with you jibberish.. Fact is the Eagles since 2001, have been one of the most productive Organizations….yes, Banner may have picked the wrong personnel at times, but he also should be credited for the talent he has assisted with bringing to Philly, which I think many of you forget…Fact is, I didnt like all the moves prior to 2011…Hell I didnt even like the idea of signing Nnamdi and getting a LB…so just because I didnt get what I want, I’m not the type of person that will have a hissy fit about things I have no control…I choose to be an Eagles fan, so I’m gonna ride for them, no matter what…
Real you must be a Scorpio. I just cannot think of anything else.
LMAO – JBird you are 100% accurate once again…I am scorpio!
Some NFL News..
Despite what Jon Hart said a couple weeks back, Paulman was correct again in stating the Patriots would release WR Chad “OchoCinco” Johnson who was not a fit for their System and was released earlier today
The Jacksonville Jaguars also released often-injured, DE Aaron Kampanen who was a bust for them after siging a Free-Agent deal with them 3 Years ago.. I remember many on here wanted the Eagles to pursue him and he’s missed 28 Games the last 3 Season due to injury and wasn’t very productive since joining the Jaguars and had his best Seasons 4-5 Years ago.. ..
NY Jets WR, the malcontent Santonio Holmes, left practice early after throwing a fit and stated that he was being “Overused” at Pratice. Holmes was out of the Country on a USO Tour for the Military which is a noble and worthy deed but is not in tip-top football shape yet and felt he was being woked too hard by the Coaches who should know that he’s not in shape yet
I don’t know about you guys, but a 4 Year $50 Million Deal to this clown is ridiculous, Yes he;s fast and makes big plays, but I would not have a Santonio Holmes on my Team which is why the Steelers got rid of him 2 years ago for a 6th Round Pick .. He’s a cancer no matter where he goes…..
The biggest problem with Joe Banner is the fact that many of his techniques/tactics made it out into the discriminating public’s hands including the fact that he thought very highly of himself despite the fact that the Eagles had not won a Superbowl, Most fans rightly laid their grievances at the feet of the front office pinned with fact that personnel mismanagement and lack of vision, specifically in the personnel acquisition area, squandered the best core of talent the organization had had in it’s history.
…In other words if you get halfway and no further, because of your stubbornness, stupidity or lack of vision you actually don’t get a goldstar. If you expect a goldstar anyway…well people aren’t gonna give you much respect.
Real…I am a Leo. That explains a lot. I always know when I seem to rub someone the wrong way and they can’t stand me for no particular reason, they are usually Scorpios. Thats my kryptonite.
For some reason, not winning a superbowl has been everybody’s fault except the overweight headcoach.
Now that the players have been paid. Front office and assistant coaches jettisoned. Who’s fault will it be this year, when the Eagles lose in the 2nd round of the playoffs.
Will we blame injuries? Turnovers? or the lack there off? Or we just were not lucky enough. Or how about the weather.
Or here’s an idea…How about blaming the guy who after every loss says it’s his fault and “he has to do a better job of putting his players in a position to win”?
Don’t you ever get sick of being the only team in the NFC East not to win a Superbowl?? Sissys make excuses Winners WIN. JUST WIN. Period.
Every team in the NFC EAST HAS MULTIPLE SUPERBOWLS. NY Giants have 2 recent superbowls with average teams(9-7) at best…
Andy Reid is a regular season coach. He is a weaker version of Bud Grant, Don Coreyel and the buffaloe bills head coach. All those guys had talent and were great at winning football games. As long as it was not a championship game.
The Superbowl formula is not that complicated. A GM who knows NFL talent, An owner will to pay for the talent, and a decent coach to manage the talent.
Teams like the Packers Steelers Redskins(bobby beatherd days) Cowboys (gil brant days) had great GMs. Not nessisarily great coaches. The Steelers have won with 3 different coaches. Coughlin is not a great coach. But he is a simplistic coach. A fundamental coach.
Who is our coach??? Mr. OUTSMART the world. Makes simple things like running the ball in the 4th quarter to protect a lead, complicated. He makes managing the clock complicated. The simplist things he makes complicated.
He creates his own problems. The mark of a loser. You had a roster with 6 recent probowl players on defense and he chooses. HE CHOOSES an inexperienced bum to coach them. HE CREATED THAT PROBLEM.
And he gets another chance to be Head Coach.
JEFFREY LOSER has attached himself to a LOSER.
Banner did his job(managing the money and making lurie rich), and is the one front officer person who said it does not make sense to keep expecting a different result using the same people.
Andy Reid has not done his job to bring a championship to philadelphia. The Arizona Cardinals has trouble selling play off tickets a few years ago. The Eagles could sell out a Pre Season game.
This team has had the massive financial support of the fans for decades and that is why WE DESERVE A SUPERBOWL CHAMPIONSHIP.
NOT EXCUSES FROM AND OVERWEIGHT DRUG DEALER…
Great post Mr.bsm, you pretty much nailed it
bms……couldn’t have said it better
thank you
and Schill?
Stop the excuses of what happened with “JJ”.
what did Reid win when “JJ” was alive?
Nothing..and please don’t try to compare Reid to Coughlin.
Please.
Coughlin won 2 Superbowls with 2 different coordinators. Reid is not even on the same planet…
Now head to head?
That’s a different argument yet that really doesn’t matter.
Reid prepare real well against the division but comes up short when against teams like the Patriots who you’ll need to go through to hoist the Lombardi.
See, coughlin understood a long time ago that winning the division is not the superbowl..so losing to Reid in a game or two is really nothing to Coughlin because he’s focused on the big stage…..
And once he’s on the big stage…..He deliver…
Right?
So, what makes Reid as good a coach as Coughlin again?