• May 17, 2022

Ron Jaworski Rates Vick 12th In The NFL, But Sees Big Year Ahead

Former Eagles quarterback and current ESPN analyst Ron Jaworski rates current Birds quarterback Michael Vick as the 12th best quarterback in the NFL.  Jaws has been rating the top 32 NFL quarterbacks for ESPN’s Sportscenter.  This can’t make Vick happy, but Jaws did emphasize that this could be a big year for the former number one overall pick in the NFL draft.

Jaworski graded Vick number 14 mainly because of his 2011 performance which included 18 touchdown passes and 14 interceptions.  The Eagles finished with a 8-8 record and didn’t make the playoffs.  Vick and the Birds offense struggled in the turnover category and had major problems scoring in the red zone.

The other major reason the former Eagles quarterback rated Vick so low was his inability to stay healthy for an entire season.  Last year back up quarterback Vince Young started three games because of Vick’s injuries and the Birds lost two of them.

“The issue I have always had with Vick has been his willingness to run, to play the position outside of the pocket, outside of the structure of the offense,” Jaworski said. “There’s no question he’ll always make plays, but he also leaves throws on the field.”

Like Andy Reid, Jaworski wants to see Vick operate more from the pocket and reduce his scrambling.  Jaws doesn’t see anything wrong with him scrambling after he’s given the pass play a chance to work, but he wants to see Vick protect himself at the end of the run and avoid taking the big hits.
“I charted all of Vick’s snaps last season,” Jaworski said. “He was taken to the ground more than 11 times per game. You can’t play 16 games that way. Vick always reminds me of something my former coach, Dick Vermeil, says: ‘The problem with quarterbacks who can run is, they run.’”

In the end Jaws says Vick can be a classic pocket quarterback if he will focus on that area of his game and stay away from trying to make highlights with his scrambling.

“Vick has shown he is capable of throwing the ball exceptionally well from the pocket,” Jaworski said. “His overall throwing skill set can be top five in the league. His objective in 2012 must be to play that way more often. It becomes an availability issue. You can’t be an elite NFL quarterback if you can’t be counted on every single week.”


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  • I think Jaws ranking is pretty fair and on spot as of today…
    My own list based upon pure QB tangibles/intangibles.
    1: AR
    2: Brees
    3: Brady
    4: Big Ben
    5: Eli
    6: Stafford
    7: Rivers
    8: Cutler
    9: Romo
    10: Newton
    * P. Manning
    12: Vick

    *P. Manning, based upon the last time i saw him pay, I would take over Vick presently. However, I need to see him play before I say how high he goes on the list. I think he will actually play well this year for being out for the year (don’t know about his weapons tho) and be ranked somewhere in the 7-9 range after the season.

    ON pure QB physical ability Stafford and Cutler could be 1-2 on this list. They just need to stay healthy and get better mentally which is why i couldn’t put them over some SB winning Qbs.

  • Jaws has Cam Newton at #15 which is pretty amazing since he was a day ! Starter in his Rookie Season with no Summer OTA’s last year playong on a Team with brand new coaching staff and WR Steve Smith and bunch of new TE’s & WR’s.. Figuring that Vick is a 10 Year Vet means that C Newton is unbelievable or that M Vick is just not a very good QB (Or Elite anyways) and it’s probably a combination of both.. Vick’s career is at Stake as is the Eagles Future based on what Vick does in 201. There are no more excuses for him or Coach Ar in my opinion…

  • Did either of you (including G.Cobb) read Jaw’s ranking, he actually ranked Vick at #12, Cam Newton #14. @Paulman who told you that Vick’s future with the Eagles is based on what he does in 2012, you people, need to quit trying to make up shit, and pretending you are running the Eagles front office.

  • Well I guess they don’t drug test at your place of employment, or you just feel like we are all illiterate and can’t read anything he is ranked #12 not 14. As far as what you think of Mike it is always the same old bull. I guess you loser forgot Jay Cutler did not make the playoff and has been injured every year he has been in Chicago, this is the first year Matthew Statford stayed healthy and Cam Newton was 6-12 playing a full season. Payton Manning was not only injured but did not take one snap. It is the same old garbage for you Cobb, you are not only clueless but you can’t even get your lies straight, next time investigate or learn how to read before you write your fiction. You are a joke to say the least!

  • JMT, Im not sure if that was addressed to me but if it was, your post is just simply stupid. My stance on Vick has always been that I don’t love him or hate him. He is what he is to me which is a good QB compared to the NFL competition, which is evident by me ranking him 12 overall.

    I said Cutler and Stafford could be 1-2 on pure physical tools. Anybody that has watched them would agree…they probably have the best arms you could ask for in the entire NFL. Cutler has basically missed time once in his career which was last year (was playing great btw up to that injury)…so i dont know what you are talking about there…STafford has been hurt but like i said if he stayed healthy he could easily be up there at the top. 5000 plus yards and 40 plus TDS is what he is capable of doing and honestly Vick wouldn’t even get close to those numbers in a single season. PLain and simple.

    If you are really an Fan of the Eagles team, then you would take Stafford, Cutler, or NEwton over Vick in a heartbeat as of today. However, based on the logic you have shown you are a Fan of Vick more…probably from VA or something and he is your hometown hero maybe…if Vick got traded tmrw my guess is you would probably be following a new team.

  • Vick really should be top 6 or 7 simply because where Jawarski put him he’s behind the likes of Phillip Rivers, even probably Shaun Hill and younger guys that really haven’t accumulated stats at the pinnacle of NFL play over YEARS of time. One mediocre season after an incredible season, with his resume should not put him in the middle to the bottom of the pack of QBs.

    Speaking of former Eagles QBs. Donovan McNabb has made it clear that he’s fine with being a back-up. If the Eagles want to solidify their back-up situation they ought to call him ASAP. Edwards has already been pegged as a no-go by most journalists that have seen him (probably worse that Vince Young) Kafka might be good as a 3rd string player, but I can’t really see much more and Foles can go to the practice squad.

  • What the hell have Phillip Rivers done?

    Tony freakin Romo?

    You guys can’t tell me this is not a racist league when it comes to the QB position.

    If these guys were black you think they would have been mentioned over Mike Vick?

    I look at how the fan base here speak of McNabb who is the best QB the Eagles have ever had….and compare that to how the Buffalo fans revere Jim Kelly who never won a SB.

    I look at the garbage we have on this team behind Vick and see fans who would rather have nothing to backup Vick when Mcnabb would clearly be a better option with his grasp of the offense.

    There’s a double standard all the way around and now garbage ass Jaworski who lost his job to the great Randall Cunningham now is placing failures over Vick for no reason.

    Hell, the philly fans are more endeared to Jaws more than Randall Cunningham & Mcnabb!

    look at that.

    Vinny “freakin won nothing” Testaverde kept a jon into his 40’s as a backup yet fans here are making lame ass excuses to why Mcnabb would be a bad idea.

    Trent Edwards is a bad idea …Mike no arm Kafka is a bad idea.

    Who cares if it’s a media circus?
    The last time we had a media circus with reporters packed at Lehigh we went to the Superbowl.

    Get Mcnabb in here because he’s the best option in this offense if Vick goes down.

    Vick may go do for a few games with his track record on injuries, so if were trying to win then let’s get the best option available to back up the most important position on the team.

  • Tony Romo = 4,184 yds 31 TD’s 10 Int
    Phil rivers = 4,624 yds 27 TD’s 20 Int
    Mike Vick = 3,303 yds 18 TD’s 14 Int

    Neither of the 3 have won anything so camparison is based solely on the numbers
    And with 9 to 13 more TD’s along with 800 to 1300 more yards passing

    It ain’t racist It’s Math

  • Gotta Luv It, your making to much sense to some of these guys. IN fact, the only people that are clearly racists are those who are bringing color into the argument when it really has no place.

    What has Rivers done? he has been just as far as Vick in terms of going deep into the playoffs. And he did it on a torn ACL and a with a HOF Rb that quit on the team caring more about himself. He has better numbers than Vick= simply better. Further, Rivers has played in the AFC where you had “golden Standards” of the NFL. Steelers, Colts, and PAts…lets be real man nothing compared to what the Birds had to go through…yea the Cards and Bucs are real gold standards too give me a fucking break..

    I hate Romo mroe than any NFL player in the league. But when you look at the numbers he is much better than Vick. plain and simple i dont know what the big deal is, it is what it is, be a grown ass man and just accept it. And like i said Vick, based on his career stats, would never be able to touch Staffords season from last year..its just the truth..i wish i was wrong but its just reality.

  • songs, why get all jacked up about one man’s opinion, jaworski, his opinion worth no more, less than your opinion, but i agree with his opinion and vermeil’s …….the problem with a running quarterback is that he is a running quarterback

  • Songs, you’re a moron bro. Are you really playing the racist card right now? Get the f out here with that shit. Keep in mind there are very few black quarterbacks in the league to begin with. Also, you ask what the hell has Tony Romo and Phillip Rivers done; well, what the hell has Mike Vick done? He was stellar in 2010 but was absolutely dreadful last year. Talk about costly turnovers in game changing situations. That’s not what elite qbs do. Couple that with the fact that all of the QBs ranked above him typically play 16 games a year whereas Vick is guaranteed to miss about 25% of the season. I don’t think you can argue with Jaws’ ranking of Vick. Cam Newton is probably only as low as he is because he’s only been in the league for one year and it’s hard to rank him over other veterans with such a small sample size.

  • Jake …yeah its just his opinion but here is the difference between his, yours, songs and mine…
    He actually has access and more resources available to form a more “educated” opinion..Hence this statement ““I charted all of Vick’s snaps last season,” Jaworski said. “He was taken to the ground more than 11 times per game.”
    And no one on here except maybe Vinnie had that type of info on Vick
    And I say that because very few on here back up their opinions with facts

  • I am not sure where I would rank Vick at this point. But I have said often that I think 2010 was an aberation. And I also think that last year was a fluke as well. Vick is never going to be as good as he was in 2010 for SIX games ever again. It only took a couple months for D coordinators to be able to effectively game plan against him and then his stellar season came to an unceremonious end. He was dreadful in his last two games against Minn and GB.
    Now regarding last year, Vick is also not as bad as those numbers look. He was particularly poor in the 1-4 start, but the O line was not very good yet at that point. Once the line gelled Vick was solid. If you look at Vick’s numbers after the 1-4 start, I think that is about what he is. Somewhere between 2010 and 2011. I project he will start 14 games, throw for around 3700 yards, with 25 TDs and 12 picks. The biggest thing he needs to do is protect the football when he runs. He fumbles too much and that is easily correctable. If I were Andy I would literally bench him for a series every time he goes past the line of scrimmage and does not tuck the ball.

  • I agree jbirf..
    I expect that Vick will be somewhere between his great 2010 Season and his disappointing 2011 Season but he did play much better towards the end of the Season.. I think his Stats may not be as good (as far as yards thrown, Td Pases,QB Ratings, but if he plays smart ball and protects himself and the ball and limits Turnovers and Negative Plays, then the Eagles should be fine Offensively, Get the ball out to playmakers will bethe key and not Vick trying to play Superman every game on every play..

  • Vick stinks. Eagles need a QB bad!

  • mhenski, from what I hear you ain’t spelling too good with, Eagles have a QB what what they don’t need is fans like you

  • peace112… you are by far the biggest tool I have come across on this web site.

    have a good day

  • Peace are you intellectually challenged?

    #1 you don’t know how to write a sentence
    #2 you don’t how to make a point
    #3 you don’t know how to use a comma

    Can you rewrite your post in a way a non intellectually challenged could comprehend what you meant. The following does not make any sense:

    #1 from what I hear you ain’t spelling too good with
    #2 Eagles have a QB what what they don’t need is fans like you

  • Peace are you intellectually challenged?

    #1 you don’t know how to write a sentence
    #2 you don’t know how to make a point
    #3 you don’t know how to use a comma

    Can you rewrite your post in a way a non intellectually challenged could comprehend what you meant. The following does not make any sense:

    #1 from what I hear you ain’t spelling too good with
    #2 Eagles have a QB what what they don’t need is fans like you

  • I’m not absolutely sure it’s all racism with McNabb or Cunningham, but it plays a role. I mean Kafka, Edward or Knowles…knowing Vick generally misses 4-6 games even when playing almost exclusively from the pocket? The team is filling a lot of holes, but it’s all for naught if the don’t fill the most critical holes.

    The big thing that both McNabb and Cunningham have in common that Philly fans don’t like is that they both are not “Working Class” type guys. Fans tend to think, I gather, that they are the type of people that look down their noses at working class guys. Is that accurate? I doubt it, nevertheless that’s the perception a lot of people have of the two most sterling Eagles QBs of all time and it’s pretty screwed up. There is no other fanbase that, in part or as a whole that has as many individuals that despise the franchises historically best QBs.

    Even when when you consider guys like Mike Schmidt and Pete Rose, fans of that era love those guys despite the fact that every normal person that has met either in person has confirmed that they are complete pompous jerks. Both of them are guys that really will look down their noses at you and depending on the situation will act like they in a room infested with the ebola virus if they have to be in any space with normal people for too long.

    Which part is racism and which part is poor perception I don’t know, but both are undeniably mixed in when talking about either McNabb or Cunningham.

  • “like they ‘are’ in a”

    Still wish there was an edit button.

  • Frank22, tool you are indeed, and I’m sure you spend a lot if not all of your time on websites, and you’re proud of that……………..

    Now you have an even better day

  • mhenski, what was so hard for you to understand about that. You said Vick stinks, I in return said you weren’t smelling to good yourself….. you understood that didn’t you. Can’t take insults, try not passing them out. You fools are hilarious, when you get called out, your immediate response always has something to do with grammar. LOL “what what they don’t need fans like you” well sounds like a typo to me, but then you got the point, and as far as I am concerned that’s all that matters.

  • No I did not understand anything you wrote. You told me I am not spelling to good, now you are saying I am not smelling to good. I don’t get it either way you phrase, sorry I don’t speak retard.

    Now I get your main point which correct me if I am wrong was ‘the ealges, dont need, fans like, me, who, think, the eagles are, a very talented, team except, for, their, quarterback,

  • Yes peace… It seems that you are on the same web site that I am..

  • And I should add if that was your point, you are right! What organization wouldn’t want a fan base of clueless, loyalists who are not critical of their moves and players and just applaud everytime they put up the applaud sign.

  • Frank I agree for the moment we are on the same website, the difference is I don’t make this site my home…………..

  • @mhenski, hey don’t try flipping the script now. You wouldn’t by any chance be calling yourself a “loyalist, I can understand you calling yourself clueless, but loyalist………………I don’t think so.

  • Ok I’m clueless. Mike Vick is one of the best qbs in the league and is a proven winner. Thanks for showing me the light.

  • @Mhenski, you’re more than welcomed.

  • I love being welcomed, being unwelcomed is always fun.

  • ruben amaro doing some serious spin control, on both wip and missanelli’s show talking up the moves he’s made, sounds alot like banner in the old days, damn. where did 102 wins go so quickly

  • Your home ehh? That is very brazzin trash talk that is very hurtful to my emotional well being.. I am quite worried that you think people can live on the internets.

  • Im not big on the race card but it has always played a factor in judging Qb’s. with that being said opinion is opinion Vick being ranked 12 is not far off or far fetched. i dont see how jake bad throw Cutler could be ahead of him, that part i believe is what songs is reffering. if it was a black QB throwing ints left and right not living up to promise he would be out. jeff george may have got a call last year to come back and play and Culpeper cant even get a back up job. kordell Stewart took his team deep in the playoofs and almost won league MVP and the next year was replaced by Tommy Maddox. Am i saying Kordell was a world beater? no but if he was a good old boy he would have plenty of time to correct his mistakes or they wouldnt be all his fault. Mcnabb yes i hate his personality but seriously who were the eagles before him? yet he was the reason we never got one instead of mostly the reason we made it to those games in the first place. its like no game was a big game unless the eagles lost then he cant win a big game. look at Romo major choke after major choke forget NFC tittle he has won one playoff game yet every year i must hear about what he is gonna do. Peyton Manning is a horrible playoff QB the same year the Eagles lost to the Pats Peyton didnt put up a single point on that same D yet Mcnabb is a choke smh lol

  • btc24 the rankins are suposed to be based off of last year if so Cam has to go higher possibly over Vick. if they are not Vick has done way more than Roho I mean Romo for sure. If Romo walked into Green Bay and won when nobody had ever won we would still be hearing about it.

  • “if it was a black QB throwing ints left and right not living up to promise he would be out.” is an interesting line.

    Here are 4 QBs. One is a “superstar” and the other two are considered complete shitters qho bounced around from team to team over their careers. Fans groaned when they signed with their team. My question is why is one of them still a superstar?

    starts comp att % yrds tds td% ints int%
    92 1422 2538 56% 17912 111 4.4% 72 2.8%
    92 1351 2264 59.7 14443 65 2.9 71 3.1%
    81 1424 2528 56% 14693 79 3.1% 85 3.3%
    99 1301 2346 55% 15692 95 4% 81 3.5%

    The only area where Vick is superior is TDs thrown. He’s thrown 16 more than the incomperable the next guy on the list.. Vick dies have a lower int % than the other 3, but if you take out the 6 games where he didn’t throw one in 2010 (a statistical mirage)…he’s at about 3.3%. Right with the rest of the journeymen.

    Now you may be right NyGreem that the only reason these shitters had 10 yr NFL careers were because they were white. Maybe that’s the case, maybe not (but are you really arguing however that Kordell or Culpepper should have NFL jobs? Just because one shitter has an NFL job doesn;t mean every shitter should have one does it?

    I don’t think VIck is still around and being touted as a top tier QB because he is black. I’m saying its because he was a 1st pick overall. Those guys often carry that cache longer than its deserved and I think this is the case with Vick.

    As for what a top 10 qb should look like over 9 seasons….say Rivers (because he gets slagged on here….I myself am not a big fan…he’s like Marino, always pointing at other players, “that was your fault” …….anyway..

    starts comp att % yrds tds td% ints int%
    100 1930 3037 63.5% 24285 163 5.4% 78 2.6

    I mean he’s thrown for 6000 more yrds and 60 more tds in 9 more starts.

  • I need spellcheck. I also meant 8 more starts.

    BTW – can anyone name the 3 journeymen I compared Vick’s #s to?

  • @Vinny I don’t want to be taken literally with the whole race thing. I don’t believe Bill Cower would say “I had enough of Kordel Stewert bc he is black”. But there are certain expectations and low toleration for things that a normal publicly viewed prototypical qb does not get in most cases. Culpepper threw for over 40td in a year when Moss got hurt. He hurt his knees but still played ok with horrible teams yet he can’t get a back up job. Quincy Carter has the same amount of playoff appearances as Romo. Lol. Ok I’m just being smart but it truth behind it. You post Vick stats ignoring he ran for 1000 yards and all the wins he had. Stats don’t show the whole picture. If you gonna show Vick numbers show them all. It’s all perception Warren Moon threw for who knows what but his name does not get dropped with the greats. I sure don’t do it it’s just our perception. oh bc he played in the K gun or whatever the fuck. So what teams pass all the time now. Bret Farve greatest man on earth wasn’t the MVP his defense and special teams won Reggie white dominated Popped pain killers to stay on the field and threw ints in big game after big game after big game. Horrible pop ups vs the eagles giants yet if he wanted to play right now he can. I like Rivers alot I think he is a competitor and a top level qb. But he would be getting killed every pic over analyzed. Look at mcnab super bowl performance against that Patriot D with a 70% T.O. Manning did nothing against them. Rivers did nothing against them. That D was lights out that year. Mcnab threw for over 300yrds 3tds 3picks but they did that to everybody.

  • 1.Brady

  • NuGreemboi you have every right to disagree with my list, just like i do with yours (i don’t think Shaub is top 10)…But believe me race is not factor…I don’t give a shit what people do in their outside lives either…That being said when it comes to my rankings…Romo (hate his guts) just has better pure numbers than Vick plain and simple…I like Cutler based on his physical ability (maybe strongest arm in the game) and he has virtually nothing to work with on offense and absolutely no offense line either…he would easily be top 5 in stats IMO with a Jason Peters/Kelce/and TH guarding for him and guys to throw to like Maclin/Djax…again this is just my opinion.

  • Pheags…your comments in itself shows the double standard.

    There’s no excuses for black QB’s yet you can make excuses that give QB’s who have did absolutely nothing higher ranking over Vick.

    What the hell have Cutler done in this league?

    How is romo even in the conversation for top 10?

    I remember cats was touting Ryan after his rookie season..

    I’ll tell you right now if Cam Newton was white he would be a top 5 QB right freakin now.

  • Cutler turns the ball over more than Vick… But yet people project him on the Eagles line? lol… Why?

    Why, try to excuse his numbers like that?

    Ive heard that excuse for Cutler before… “his line sucks…If he played behind the Wagles line, he’d be better than Vick!”

    Yeah well he doesnt play behind Vick’s line…. And something like ball security is the QB’s job anyway…. It doesnt matter what his O line looks like..

    As for Eagles fans… I live here and I know there is a certain segment (large enough to make you shake your head in shame) of fans who hate Vick, they hated McNabb, and they hated Cunningham. They long for a great white hope QB to come and fulfill all their dream

    They appreciate Vick and these other black QBs when they are making plays, but they still resent them as people…

    Its sad, but this is America and that twisted sentiment exists in many fields, not just sports.

  • Again, the only people bringing up color are the ones that obviously think about it. Not going to even get into because i don’t give a damn about what Qbs look like. I will say tho i find it hilarious how people call other racists yet their the ones that say shit like “great white hope”…i guess people are too stupid to know that being racist can work all ways.

    In regard to actual football, I dont think anyone turned the ball over more than Vick did last year. Second, Cutler has gone just as far as Vick in the playoffs. Third, I do think its fair to take into consideration what Qbs have to play with (hence why i don’t like Shaub too much…injury prone and has AJ to throw too). Don’t know what the big deal was about that.

  • Stafford?

    over Vick?

    This is pathetic….

    I remember the game Vick was blasting the Colts and the refs tried to give Manning dumb ass calls so the Colts could win.

    Vick was getting destroyed “in the pocket” with lat hits and refs did nothing….yet Trent Cole hand inadvertently grazed Manning’s helmet when Manning ducked into his hand and the refs called “roughing the passer”.

    Do you all remember that?

    I’m hearing stafford who have done nothing, and garbage ass Cutler who throw balls up for grabs on a regular, and Phillip Rivers who did nothing since LT was let go…Manning is one hit from being wheeled off the field and didn’t play last year and automatically ranked above Vick.

    This wouldn’t be big deal if there was an even playing field publicly for blacks as it is for whites at the QB position..

    Hell, look at Kolb’s garbage ass!

    How is he still getting a check?

    Remember he was given the job without an open competition over Vick?

    It’s blatant racism

  • Songs come on man, Stafford 5000 plus yards and 40 plus tds (with no RB at all btw)…Vick has never even come close to those numbers. I hope he does this year but i just don’t see it him ever putting numbers up like that in a season.

  • Stafford all day over Mike Vick and you gotta be on LSD to think otherwise.

  • @pheags

    The term “great white hope’ is the nicest way I could describe some of the backwards a$$ fans in this city…. You can play ostrich and stick your head in the sand if you like, but that doesnt negate what I said. Anyone who is honest will admit that a portion of these fans have a problem with black Qbs…

    Its obvious pheags… Whether you THINK about race or not means nothing in reality…. it exists

    and only a stupid person would call it racism…. Its prejudice, not racism… prejudice can work many ways… Racism cannot… learn the difference

    In regard to actual football:

    Cutler last two years has played in 25 games and has 9 fumbles lost and 23ints

    Vick last two years has played 25 games and has 7 fumbles lost and 20 ints


  • Wow… Cutler threw 26 picks in 09…. Yup he’s great ….*GTFO*

  • Gimme vick over cutler all day.

    I dont give a fuck what color a QB is, but its a fact that some do. No clue what the percentages are but it bothers some people but oh well that is the way the world works no sense stating the obvious.

  • Cutler is a heartless bonehead. i don’t want any part of that guy.

    As far as Vick’s low rating, who the eff cares? He has a ton of talent and his arm strength certainly fits this offense, but can he play a full season without getting hurt? That is the big concern for me. Stafford presents the same injury concerns as Vick, but I would probably take him because he is younger. You get more accuracy, but you lose a ton of mobility.

    As far as the prejudice in the city goes, of course it exists. What bothers me is that sometimes it is applied with broad strokes in that any criticism of a QB is considered being prejudice.

  • Why the hell you guys so stuck on Cutle?. You’re getting all hot and bothered comparing one POS QB in Vick to another in Cutler. Who gives a shit which of those two is “better” than the other. I don’t see the point. I thought we were talking top 10 QBs, and neither of those 2 fit into that category.

    As for Vick vs Stafford. Anyone who says they’d take Vick over Stafford is an idiot. And I don;t even like the backwards hat wearing clown. He’s not going to win much till he grows up either, but hell, he through for more yrds and tds last year than Vick has in the last 2 combined. He’s thrown 60 tds in 29 starts. VIck has 111 in 92 starts. Comparing those two is a joke. He’s thrown for over half of VIck’s yards and he’s played less than 2 full seasons!

    And as for this stupid line:
    “I’ll tell you right now if Cam Newton was white he would be a top 5 QB right freakin now.”

    What exaqctly? Newton not getting enough press for you. Not being recognized enough? Because he’s black?

    AP Offensive Rookie of the Year
    Pepsi NFL Rookie of the Year
    2012 Pro Bowl
    Sporting News Rookie of the Year
    Offensive Rookie of the Month (1x), September, nominated (4x)
    Pepsi NFL Rookie of the Week (3x), Week 4, 15, and 16, nominated (11x)

    Was second in voting for the Madden cover losing to C johnson (was there some racism involved there Songs?)

  • I wouldnt take either QB (Cutler or Vick)

    Paulman’s Top QB’s in Today’s NFL
    #1) Tom Brady
    #2) Aaron Rodgers
    #3) Drew Brees
    #4) Peyton Manning (when Healthy)
    #5) Big Ben (just wins Championships)
    #6) Eli Manning (just wins Championships)

    8 Veteran QB’s that I am not sold on being able to Win Big games
    Phil Rivers, Tony Romo, Matt Ryan, Jay Cutler, Mike Vick & Matt Schaub, Joe Flacco and Carson Palmer.. Any one of these QB’s could rise up in 2012 and have a great Season and lead their Team to a Championship, but until they do it, I consider them Good QB’s but definitely not Great or Elite QB’s..

    4 Young QB’s I am very impressed with, who have very bright futures
    Matt Stafford, Cam Newton, Andrew Dalton, Josh Freeman

    Some Young QB’s I am not impressed with and who I think don’t have what it takes.. Kevin Kolb, Mark Sanchez, Blaine Gabbert, Kevin Kolb, Tavaris Jackson, Colt McCoy, Chad Henne,

    Complete unkowns at this point
    Christian Ponder, Matt Flynn, A Luck, RGIII, Steve Tannehill

  • Bugsy, I couldn’t agree more with the last part of your post. All I said was that I like Cutler and Stafford more as QBs than Vick and then people pull out the race card. Its my own fucking opinion plain and simple. If you disagree with my rankings or whatever i say about sports thats completely fine. But throwing false accusations out there when you know nothing about me is childish and ignorant. Especially when these other posters are usually the ones that make everything about color. Sounds pretty hypocritical to me.

    Bugsy, I too questioned Cutler’s heart at times but i think he played pretty well last season up until he got hurt…The BEars were killing it until him and Forte got hurt. Who knows how far they would have gone in the playoffs..But like I said, what i like about him is his physical ability to throw the football. And the BEars do seem to beat our ass every time we play head to head…we always seem to get outplayed in every position when we play the BEars.
    Wow you see that..me and Bugsy disagreed without making it about race..geez didn’t think that was possible on here.

  • great list paulman…

    I think Mike Vick has the talent to be a top 5-10 qb in this league, just based on his talent alone. The thing I question is his maturity.. Imagine if he can put the headsy part of the game togather with that athletic ability? Wow. He 100 % has the tools, but soes he have the maturity? I have to say I was really impressed with what he has been saying at the rookie symposium. He acknowledged his mastakes and owned them. That my friend is an adult. I hope this all translates to the field.

    I would not in a million years take Cutler over Vick. I think I would take Stafford based on age and upside. Dont forget Vick is 32

  • @ pheags…

    I responded to your dumb comment about “great white hope” and whether or not it exists..

    And I also made a point about Cutler and backed it up… period… If you still like him over Vick? thats your business..

    I didnt make a race related point as to why your love of Cutler makes ZERO sense…..

    I was just pointing out how silly the idea is….

    I didnt throw any “false accusations” at you … If you referring to someone else? then fine….

    On the race issue….. I made the point because it was being discussed….

    I agree with the poster who said that it shouldnt be painted in broad strokes… That is why I said a “PORTION” , “SOME” and “A CERTAIN SEGMENT” of fans are bigots… deal with it

    Vick had a bad year last year and turned the ball over too much…. this year he needs to improve and his rankings will also… More importantly, the Eagles will have a better year if he improves..

  • my two sense regarding this race discussion – stop it.. Racism and prejudice are two things that everyone in the world will have to deal with at one point of another, some more than other s unfortunately. Sports is the one place where this shit does not matter in the slightest. If you can ball, than you can ball.

  • LOL @ Frank….

    “Sports is the one place where this shit does not matter in the slightest.”

    Not true pal….. Not even remotely true…

  • Rasheed – how so?

  • Tell you what….if Mcnabb was white in this town and had had McNabb’s resume, Kolb would not have been drafted and he would not have been traded….and he definitely wouldn’t be unemployed right now.

  • I think that Vick is in a position to have a good if not great year, but a few things need to happen.

    He needs to stay on the field
    Bell has to do an adequate job of protecting him
    D-Jax has to be interested and he better be now that he has been paid
    Celek needs to be Vick’s best friend. Whoever calls the plays needs to feature him more and Vick needs to target him more
    McCoy needs to be McCoy (doesn’t have to get to last year’s numbers, but he does have to be explosive)

    Those are my thoughts and I think that they are all possible.

  • one good thing to take account about Vick even though he’s 32.. he did give his body a break when he was out of Football for 2 + Years as far as being a Starter. Now if he can smarten up and not take the innecessary hits they he does, then he physcially has 3-4-5 very good years left, If he keeps taking the hits he did last year, his body will begin to break down and those minor 2-3 week issues will become longer term injuries if he doesn’t play smarter and protect himself better..

  • How So?

    Where do you think the “black Qb” issue comes from?

    “blacks arent smart enough to be Qbs” – does that ring a bell?

    There plenty of issues and perceptions that come about due to race and people’s perception of race…

    Lets please stay in reality people…

    P.S I you think that sports is a place where concrete evidence matters much more than say….. The corporate world?

    Yes I agree with that… Players are mostly hired and fired based on their value, not their race….

    But hiring and firing are not the ONLY aspects of sports… Some sports reporting as well as some fans, players, and coaches attitudes about people affect sports just as much as “who gets hired and who gets fired”..

    Not even saying saying it goes all one way… Where you have higher scrutiny on black Qbs…. You may also have higher scrutiny on white corners…

    Bottomline is that football (or any of the 4 major sports) doesnt exist in a different society…. It exists HERE in this society, where race is an issue.

  • That’s ridiculous SOngs.. Kolb was Drafted after McNAbb’s 8th/9th Season as a PRo.. You have a draft QB’s every few years to start grooming a potential starter/replacement, and especialyl when you are a perennial playoff team and probably picking from the 24th Pick on.. What franchise QB are you going to Draft late in the 1st Round.. C’mon Songs, you’re smarter than this..

  • I think the city didnt care for his smug adtuide and preceived lack of heart. Do I personally not like him? no not at all, he was a good dude that wasnt in trouble.He was the best QB in eagles history. Smart dude that should have a great career after football.

  • Songs- you are drastically oversimplifying what went on with McNabb in this city. There was a population of fans that didn’t want him here probably because of his race, but the bigger majority were the fans that didn’t think that he could win the big game. Right or wrong. The toughest thing for an athlete in Philly to do is have success, because then we fans demand that same level of success every year. At a certain point of not getting it, we turn on that player. Then you have the Abreu effect in that the player is judged as not trying hard enough. That was a problem for #5 as well. Both of these things cross all colors with Pat the Bat, Ryan Howard, Assante Samuel and right now with Utley. Hell Danny Briere is killed every year in the regular season as dudes whine and complain about his contract even though they know that he will kill it when it comes time for playoff hockey.

    By your statement, you are saying that the Eagles FO are all prejudice. If that is the case, then why did they draft him? Why did they take a chance on Vick? Do you really think that a segment of prejudice fans convinced the team to trade him?

    Is is just not that simple.

  • Rasheed I agree with what you are saying, race is part of all society. there are stigmas in sports that are race based..but if you feel that a black qb presents you a better chance to win, you are taking him. So to me personally I do not think race plays a major role.

  • the color of Vick skin is not the issue its the stigma of what comes with it. the problem with arguing in favor of Vick is he fist the black qb stereo type to a T. lol at the same time its unfair bc most are just trowing up passing numbers next to guys that thats all they bring to the table. Stafford has a monster in calvin Johnson down there in Detroit, the book is still out on how good he can be. the fact that he can have one good year without really winning any huge games in the playoffs and he leapfroggs a guy that has led his team to win games and has performed at a high level regardless of his style of play. Vick would have more respect if he was white and that a fact. it does not take away from Rivers Stafford or anybody on how good they are but it does allow QB”s like them to play longer after their skills are deminished. where as a Vince Young plays good enough to get the cover of Madden but is out after a bad year in Tennesse. how many more years in Tenn would Vince Young get if he was a white qb with a winning record and the same style of play. my guess is he would still be down there throwin. not to mention he was benched for Kerry Collins! my point exactly.

  • Why the hell do you guys even entertain SONGS Argument
    We drafted AJ Feeley in 2001
    We drafted Andy Hall in 2004
    and this was when #5 was at the top of his game….
    So It’s because #5 is Black that he doesn’t have a job now ? am I understanding this correctly ?
    And If ANYONE BLACK WHITE OR GREEN thinks that the NFL ” the league” gives a crap about the race of a player is freakin STUPID…
    Fans & the media is another story..

  • amen luv…

    NuGreembol – Vince Young did not last as a starter to the team that drafted him becasue he was a horrible QB at best.. Same reason Kevin Kolb was benched for Mike Vick, the guy on the bench was better.

  • And what do you guys consider ” a High Level of Play “…lol…Because the “bar” has been raised….It’s no longer 3000 yds 20 TD’s

  • gotta luv it…….AJ Feeley and Andy Hall were not first picks in a draft projected to be the future when talent to help the franchise QB was needed……ok?

    So come on guy……how can you pull AJ Feeley and Andy Hall out your ass and compare that to the Kevin Kolb debacle?

    Here’s another issue.

    McNabb got all types of flack for feeling uncomfortable with that Kolb move, yet Reid and the organization never got the proper backlash for such a move which set the team back 4 years.

    And don’t give me the future draft pick DRC argument.

    If the Eagles would have told us the first pick of the draft was on the team to be traded for a player and a pick in the future we would have told them “F” off!

    Look at the money Kolb fleeced from this organization and Arizona without getting slammed for being a damn bum.

    Why is their continual opportunity for this guy ?

  • Bacause a QB that came from phila is deemed a quality player. Believe it or not AR has a good rep with his peers.

  • but not thats as important as the fact that by no means, did that decision, set the franchise back 4 years. It was one draft pick in the second round. So if the eagles never drafted Kolb, they would not have missed the playoffs with an aging DMAC?

  • Songs- What argument are you trying to make now? I hope that you are not still trying to argue that McNabb being traded was a race thing, because your last post does zero towards proving that.

  • McNabb better man up and realize his Playign Days are over if he wants a succesful career in the media, if not, he will come across as a whiner and baby just like Tiki Barder, who was set up to have a great post-football career and blew it by being an idiot… Learn,Listen and watch the ex-players who have made the transition from Player to Post Football Career who have been very succesful like Deon Sanders,Warren Sapp,Trnt Dilfer, Ted Bruschi…
    the guys who bitched,complain like Deshawn Johnson,Tiki end up out of the media pretty quick..

  • Songs #5 got hurt again for the 4th time in 6 years and there was no real future QB on the roster
    What were the holes ?…Your Boy Dawk was here along with westbrook and Jim Johnson was still running the D…Honestly I don’t remember any glaring need ?

  • Frank….we traded out of the first round then picked Kolb in the 2nd remember?

    So don’t give me he was only a 2nd rounder spill…..he was the first pick for the Eagles who were thinking seriously about taking him in the first round but assessed he’d still be so moved back for an extra pick.

    Th team projected him for the future along with the media who was doing everything to endear this damn bum to the fan base.

    They even did a full spread and titled it “A NEW ERA” on Kolb after the Mcnabb trade, while I was telling everyone back then that this guy is
    Bobby Hoying part Deux.

    My point is there’s no appreciation for Black QB’s who would be legends if they were white.

    Look at Dan Marino, Jim Kelly…..That is how McNabb should be respected for his work here and he would have been if he was white.

    And don’t give me the media and dumb qoutes for the reason Mcnabb is not embraced.

    Favre said all types of garbage, was popping Oxycotons, and sending his genitalia to women reporters, still the media loves him and he’ll go down as a Legend in Green Bay.

  • Songs – I can;t tell if you are just incredibly stupid, a pathological liar, or really just that fucking cluelless about the eagles and football – sadly – I thinkyou are going for the tripe crown of all three –

    your constant, non stop story telling about the drafting of Kolb is pure fantasy –

    1st – you BITCH about the eagles dropping out of the first round – then in the post just above – we should think of him as a first rounder and that the eagles were going to take him int eh first round –

    BULLSHIT 0- the Eagles wanted Brandon Merriweather and when the Patriots took him the birds didn;t want anyone else in the first round – and you are a fuckin idiot and a liar if you say otherwise..

    and again – in your usual clueless fuck self way – deciding that trading a 2nd round draft pick for another 2nd round draft pick and a starting pro bowl caliber CB – and Songs decised we can’t use that argument – that’s right up there with Schiller saying we can;t talk about how much Obama care costs as he is telling us how great it is – really – its like talking about last season but deciding whihc games we can talk about and whihc games your clueless ass decides we are allowed to talk about –

    and again – what Kolb debacle – debacle – you mean like Ryan Leaf or Jamarcus Russel or Matt Lienhart or Brady Quinn or Jimmy Claussen – cause QUinn adn Russel were the first two QBs taken in the draft that year jackass.. those were debacles – Kolb was drafted to do EXACTLY what he did – back up McNabb for a few years, be a suitable back up QB, and be ready to step in when MCNabb’s career ended –

    oh – and how did 2006 end for McNabb??? 2005 he ended on IR – in 2006 he ended on IR in 2007 the year Kolb was drafted – Kolb wasn;t even the fuckin back up – AJ Feeley played on the games McNAbb was hurt –

    as assnut – where exactly was Mike Vick in 2007 when Kolb was drafted?? huh jackass? – in August of that year he was pleading guilty to federal charges. so at that moment – no one knew when he would get out of prison, if or when he could play again and if he would still have the skills..

    You are so full of shit –

    I know of know one – except you – that’s right – you jackass, that ever mentioned McNAbb being uncomfortable – you, that’s right you jackass, said it made him disgruntled…

    me – why the hell would an all pro QB worry about a rookie,.

    Dude – you should be a fiction writer – really you should – no wonder you have all these half ass conspiracy theories – you have this vivid imagination that takes a single fact and so twists it that in the end, you almost seem to belive your own made up bullshit –

    so songs – stop your lying, stop your bullshitting and give it the fuck up with Kolb., it is past pathetic by this point

  • Frank kolb was a second rd selection that was benched because he got hurt and his backup played so well and already had the resume short of his legal issues to be better than him anyway. vince young however was the 3rd pick who had a winning record who also played well enough to be a pro bowler who was benched about 4 weeks into his first bad year or sign of adversity for a washed up Kerry collins who was never considered elite in the first place. do you see the difference or do you want to ignor the fact that players like ryan Leaf show nothing from day one but get 4 years to right the ship. or a player like Steve mcnair who led his team to the super bowl put up MVP type numbers but ends up getting locked out of the titans facilities before being shipped to Baltimore. im not say Jeff Fisher is sitting there like he is black i dont want him, but we are all human and he is affected by the same perceptions we all are. mcnabb said it best you have to do a litlle extra as a black qb in the NFL. all you have to do is look at 2004 playoff run of the pats. they played the Colts and Steelers.

    Peyton Manning IND 27-42 238 0td 1int
    Ben Roethlisberger PIT 14-24 226 2td 3int
    Donovan McNabb PHI 30-51 357 3td 3int
    not to mention Mcnabb threw for over 800yards during the playoff run and Tom Brady was somewhere at 500 and he did it mostly without his top gun T.O who if was better than 70% outruns Randall Gay and scores on two of his catches, yet Mcnabb is looked at as a choke. the glass is always half full. its T.O had a great game instead of Mcanab almost won with a not fully recovered T.O. or he choked instead of the game was tied with a Greg Lewis of all people catch after “throwing up”. if farve throws up then throws a TD its the stuff of legend. keep it real smh

  • If Peyton Manning threw up then passed to Marvin Harrison for i big TD in a superbowl OMG Peyton what a warrior!!! lol Mcnabb to Gregory Lewis OMG what a out of shape choke.smh

  • NuGreen…..Legends Make History…The black QB you speak of had not 1 but 2 chances to write his ticket to Canton….
    1. He had the ball with a shot to WIN the SuperBowl
    2. He had the same scenario in his last NFC title game

  • gotta luv it you must luv weak points with no info. exactly how much time was left on the clock in both games. on top of that you luv to ignore he bought the team back to even be in that position. lets forget about the last 30 sec or 24 sec of a game from the 20yrd line. what about all the games to get there none of those were big games? why because the eagles won? so its not a big game unless they take a loss? Mcnabb has done more than Rivers yet nobody is saying that about him. nobody remembers Mcnabb picking up the phone in NY or Harlem shaking on the sidelines or big run after big run or playing in the NFC title game agianst Carolina without Westbrook nobody is asking damn how did they even get there. i dont want to be turned into a Mcnabb apologist but its rediculous the perception from philly fans and nobody want to keep it 100% real. the D cant stop the screen pass year in and year out but its mcnabb fault. Jeff Garcia is loved for getting bounced from the playoffs smh. this city can be so fake at times i swear. so if he beats the cardinals then looses in the superbowl does he go to canton? glass is always half full

  • look Matt Stafford is throwing up, oh my what a pass to Calvin Johnson Touchdown what a competitor and a warrior.
    Look Mcanabb is throwing up, he passes to gregory Lewis for a touchdown, Mcanab is lucky he got that play off he needs to be in better shape for a game like this that was close. lmao

  • 4th and 26 Rivers throws what a catch by Vincent Jackson this is the stuff of Legend
    4th and 26 Mcnabb throws what a catch by Freddie Mitchel the eagles should not have been in that spot anyway this is not a big game lets see what they do next week lol

  • reading some of these posts makes me really worried about this country’s future, to to not only claim but scream that the black athlete, qb is discriminated, given the multple opportunities available to black athletes, you are a sorry ass, if you can’t take advantaqge of the opportunities then look in the mirror, in this country now being white, middle class male, now you are talking discrimination

  • @pheag88 If the shoe fits wear it, Let give a quote from Mike Vick on twitter and he said it just right “Get yours before you worry about mines.” Can you get yours loser!!!!!!!!!

  • it’s amazing how all these red-necks and ex-unimportant players of the Eagles have so much to say since Vick signed his contract. Where is GCobbs SB ring? That is what I thought not one of you losers have one. When Vick get his crawl back under your rocks where you all belong.

  • Jakedog lol if you are without a job right now im sorry but we are talking about the black qb not the black althete as a whole. as a whole sports really dont discriminate for the most part if you can play you can play. the QB position for some reason is held as sacret and some people just cant see but one type back there. who have teams fishing for white hype qb’s Drew Henson to replace Quincy Carter who they said was on coke but somehow never gets suspended. Henson was plucked off a minor league baseball team and annointed the starter lol. there is a stigmas attached to the qb position if you realize it or not. i too am guilty of it at times so its not like im sitting crying poor black man.lol it is what it is. nobody is telling Tannehill or whatever his name is to go back to wr or play TE. it is the same for a white rb too some extent people will second guess it till the end. if a pass is in the dirt or over a wr head its an incomplete or bad pass mcnabb had a high completion % for most of his career to bad recivers but the perception is he cant hit the side of a barn smh.

  • Hey gotta Luv It how long did Doug Williams play in Washington after he made “history”. did he get a chance to run the ship after he lit it up in the superbowl. oh. Didnt Sean King go to the NFC championship game in like his second year as a pro and got ripped off on a bad call that sent the Rams to play the Titans. i guess two black qb’s in the superbowl would have been too much. btw how long did he play after that season?oh. nobody is making this stuff up, black qb’s have a shorter margine for error less time to right the ship and a shorter shelf life. sounds like society to me.

  • Yea they traded out of the 1fst round. Kold was still a second round pick

  • Jmt- you are a fool bro.. You talk like you are not one on a web site. blohging about the eagles.. As in fact you are! No one said they dont like these guys because they are black.. Looks at all most of the major sports in America.. they are dominated by African Americans… This is what I don’t understand, Some are so quick to pull the race card when it comes to this shit… Please don’t mis read what I said. These conversations are horrible.
    Look at America rite now and tell me race is the worst that we’re dealing with? Yea I didn’t think so…. Maybe it’s just me, but I can’t give a fuck what color you are.. If you work hard and treat people good.. Your ok in my book

  • Nu…are you talking about the same Doug Williams, that in 4 playoff games before the Washington run in ’87 threw 2 tds and 9 ints? The guy who left the NFL for an unsuccesful USFL run where he threw more ints than tds?

    Did he “get a chance” after the sb run? Well…actually he did, tried to play for 2 years but kept ketting hurt and eventually losing his job to MarK Rypien.

    Are you talking about the same Shawn King that got “ripped off” throwing 45% 0tds and 2 ints in the playoff game? He didn’t get a chance either.

    Oh…and songs….You’re right….The Eagles totally disrespected Mcnabb (at 31) by drafting Kolb in the second round…..NO other team drafts other Qbs …every other team “RESPECTS” their white QBs….especially the guys you mentioned!!!!

    Except….Dan Marino…when the dolphins drafted Mitchell in the 3rd when Marino was 29

    Except….Jim Kelly….when they drafted Reich in the 3rd 2 yrs after Kelly (who hadn’t started a game yet). Or Collins in the 2nd when Kelly was 34?

    Except….Brett Favre….when they drafted Brunell in the 5th when he was 24, or Hasselback in the 6th when he was 29, Brooks in the 4th when he was 30, and then of course Rodgers in the first….in fact, a quick look at Favre’s history and it seems like all the Packers were doing was disrespecting his ass with a new QB drafted every year!!

    The idea that any team “disrespects” its star by drafting another QB is ludicris. Qb is like any other position and must constantly be looked at/drafted/upgraded.

    If McNabb (or songs) felt “disrespected” by the birds bringing in another QB then they are idiots.

  • Vinnie answer this question.

    You mentioned Kelly & Marino in your last post.

    Neither of them won a SB yet they’re legends in the city they played throughout their careers.

    With Mcnabb’s resume ….do you think he would be held in that same regard in Philadelphia if he was white?

    Before you answer that……..Look how respected Jaworski is in Philadelphia compared to QB’s like McNabb & Cunningham who Jaws wouldn’t qualify to wash their jock straps.

    Now take your time, look at question, then answer honestly.

  • 1) I only brought up Kelly, Marino and Favre because you wrote (wrongly):
    “Look at Dan Marino, Jim Kelly…..That is how McNabb should be respected for his work here and he would have been if he was white.”

    You were implying that the team (not fans) vever “disrespected” those guys be drafting other QBs (Like the birds did by drafting Kolb). I was just pointing out that statement is complete bullshit.

    2) Relax. You are so shortsighted. Time is required for McNabb. Kelly was not universally loved after the SB losses. All we got up here were Buffalo games/coverage at that time. The talking heads and papers and fanbase were rolling with a lot of “We should go with Reich – Kelly can’t get it done” sentiment. They were very close to running Kelly out of town…… Time soothes that.

    Right now McNabb is being slagged a bit, but he brought a lot of that on himself. Portrayed an image of being aloof a lot of the time (air guitar etc). The “woe is me” routine he’s rolling with right now isn`t going over well either. Give it a few years. Nostalgia will take over and McNabb will become as revered as Jowarski.

    And please, Jaws did not have universal acceptance in Philly. Allegations of throwing the SB, etc. TIme. Though he was a better QB than Cunningham.

    The Marino and Favre (especially Favre) love have more to do with human nature than anything else. Once someone says that player x is great – they tend to stick with it. No-one likes to go out and admit they’re incorrect. You see this all the time:

    Last summer heard two guys the day before last year’s US open on ESPN rattling on about how Tiger Woods was still the greatest golfer on Earth and how No other golfer wanted to be paired with him on the final Sunday the day before he went out and shot what? 10 over and didn;t make the cut. There is not a pro golfer out there that is in any way intimidated by Tiger anymore, but that’s the narrative, and people stick with it.

    The Favre narrative was he was the “Gunslinger”, “Having fun” “Favre being Favre” Etc. All garbage – deep down every Vikes fan knew how that last season was going to end. But yet, he was still being touted as the greatest thing since sliced bread for almost a decade after actually being good. Its not racism, just people sticking with their story.

    Every year the Cowboys are helalded as SB favourites despite having 1 playoff win in the last 15 years (or whatever dismal record it is)

    Pittsburgh Steelers still have a `great D` and they love to grind out the running game playing `Steelers football` despite having a swiss cheese D the past several years (exposed by GB, NE and others in the playoffs) and a very pass oriented offence.

    And on and on….

    And of course, we see that here in Philly with Vick. Vick is great because he was “phenomenal” at VT and is “electrifying” despite posting Joey Harrington type numbers throughout his career. He “has all the talent – he just has to put it together” has been repeated every year since 2001. And it will be repeated again next year (either here, ot I would suspect in Oakland) after he posts another 57% 3300 20 – 17 campaign.

  • Hi guys, been a while but im still around.

    Vinnie, i agree with everything that you have to say on your last point. I HATE Favre for all the reasons you posted. My only disagreement here is that I dont see many people saying Vick is a top this or top that. He is not great…. and i dont think there are more than a few fans who would say he was. But….. But…. But…… we’ve seen enough to know HE COULD put it together. He has all the tools and he has all the weapons. Where we disagree with you is that i still root for the guy and HOPE he will pull it together. You do not. Your entire football world would come crashing down IF he did.

  • case in point- The dallas game last year. He pulled it together and you could not enjoy the win because you were fending off the hounds (me) the last chunk of the game and you were defending your points.

  • Songs,

    enough with the race crap. Jaws is not remembered as much for being a great QB but a great football mind and a great football fan of philly. Noone cares that he’s white.

    Dmac had lost touch with reality right now but overtime he will land on his feet and come home. Everyone here will cheer for him(like they did the first game back) and all will be well. There was not as much public drama aired out with jaws as their was with Dmac and that has huge chunk of it.

    The most beloved eagle of all time is black. B-Dawk is worshiped here in Phillly….. so much for your race crap.

  • I have my narrative and I’m sticking to it!!

  • translation- “i hate, therefore I am”.

  • The Luries announced they are getting divorced. Sorry to hear that, divorce is never something I would wish on any family.

    Who would have belived that Jeffery would be be rid of Christina before Andy? First it was Joe and now Christina.

  • @ Stevo…great points above and I agree that we have seen MV show he has the tools and ability to perform at the highest level, and I too HOPE that he pulls it all together this year and can play at that consistant level the entire season…and HEALTHY……I am with you!!
    GO BIRDS!!

  • Im with Jaws- Vick has to be smarter, Vick has to be patient. Can he? yes. Will he? i just dont know. He MUST understand that there is talent all around him and he doesnt need to score every time he drops back. Trust the running game, trust the line, trust the playcalling.(did i just write that?)

  • it’s not just whether vick “can” do the things to make the birds champions, it is also whether Reid”can” stick to a game plan that is conducive to Vick playing controlled football, that’s where I see the problem, you have a pass happy coach, big play, innovative type quarterback, leads to no structure, improvisational play from the quarterback, highlights and lowlights but in the end little consistency

  • Stevo, I think we will see a better Vick this year than last..If anything he knows the pressure is on to perform to a high level since the Eagles could just nix his contract after another bad/injury plagued year…without having to pay most of it.

    Should be fun to watch. Can’t wait for this damn season to start

  • Vick as a pocket QB
    Never happen
    He can’t get the ball out quick enough
    He needs to roll out to see his receivers
    Reid made a big mistake thinking he could harness his raw talent
    What you saw is what you get

    Unless Kafka or the new guy suddenly bloom when they get to play after Vick’s first injury the birds are not even going to have the 3rd best QB in the NFC East and if the Skins rookie has a banner rookie they may have the 4th best

  • rcp….was that Michel Vick that out up big numbers and made quick reads the season before last once Kolb got exposed?

  • Who exactly got exposed again?

    Vick put up some big numbers for 5 or 6 games, but it wasn’t because he was making quick reads/decisions. His athleticism carried him for a while in a league that hadn’t seen him for 3 years…but soon enuf they caught up and it was back to the Joey Vickinton that we all know and love.

    But hey, who knows…maybe this will be the year he puts it all together because he has had an offseason! And if not, well we can hope again in 2013 because it will be his 5th year and he’ll be comfortable in the system. Or 2014 he’ll get it down because there’s a new head coach and OC and they know how to utilize his skills!

    Wash, rinse, repeat.

  • Jeffery Lurie’s “Year of Change”……goodbye to Joe Banner…..goodbye to Christina……watch our Big Red, Lurie looks to be in a house cleaning mood!!

    Hopefully the divorce doesn’t effect the Eagles the way an owners divorce effected the Dodgers!!

  • Vinnie- im with you on the off season thing- i dont even want to hear about that. Bottom line- He’s been with the eagles for several years and should always be ready to shine.

    As far as pressure on him….. how about last year? Plenty of pressure there.

    As far as Andy Reid and game calling- Im always jumping on Andy for this but honestly, he ran the ball more. He tried to control the game calling. Cant really blame him for that.

    You guys know i back Vick. Out of the 3 we had a few years ago, he clearly was the best choice… but im not going to make excuses for him either.

    Last year the D coaching gets first blame. Then Andy for JC. Third has to be Vick who did not play well. Believe me boys- PLENTY of blame to go around but Vick is not imune to it nor was he the #1 problem.

    Stevo- telling it like it is for 32 years and counting.

  • Mr. Lurie found the negatives…or Maybe his long time childhood fried with an ax to grind sent them to her.

    Now, if Mrs Reid bailout…this story can get heated!

    Those negatives with Reid banging Mr Lurie have went from Segrest to Castillo and somehow Banner got his grubby hands on them.

    This season might be interesting after all.

  • Yeah Andy Reid disrespected McNabb by drafting Kolb but signing Vick ,who was just out of jail.was no disrespect to McNabb

    And as far as Jaws being revered –After they are gone they are treated that way –as Jaws ( who was booed unmercifully his last years ) said I can’t find anybody that booed me when I was here–Same way with Mitch Williams and Mike Schmidt –Ain’t going to be that way with McNabb after he badmouthed the city and the Eagles after he was gone

  • Laurie should have sent his wife after she tried to dress the cheerleaders as lap dancers BUT mainly because she was the one that did away with the KELLY GREEN and picked that Gawd Awful green they now use

    Eagles will never win a championship till the go back to the Kelly Green and White they wore in 48-49-60

  • amen rcp, PLEASE, get rid of that usfl, gaudy “midnight” green and go back to real eagle green

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