• December 10, 2022

Are The Phillies Finished?

Philadelphia Phillies manager Manuel watches their MLB baseball interleague game against Toronto Blue Jays in TorontoWhat I’ve always admired about Philadelphia fans, we understand the big picture.  Can we be Negadelphians? Of course.  We still purchase the jerseys, over-pay for the tickets, food and beverage, and invest way too much of our everyday mood to how our team performed.

The 2013 Philadelphia Phillies are done.  The past portion of the “core” is no-more.  Player names still remain, but age, injury and drop-off in production has riddled their output for this.  Their contracts are too hefty for other teams to take them off our hands; we are mediocrity at best, and have aged quickly.

Charlie is going to finish the season as will Amaro in their respected roles. Amaro needs to be realistic with what this team has and invest in our future.  Charlie can only do so much; the team has made no true attempts to extend his contract past the current year he is playing out.  The H-2-O, the 4-Aces and other clever nicknames have faded for the pitching core than was put together to bring us a second parade.

It’s sad but true; transition will take place before our next playoff race.  Re-sign Utley and let him be a Philadelphia Phillie forever, and find a new home for Rollins as his quick glove has slowed; and really his defense is all he has left to offer.  Bye Bye to the Young’s, AL teams would both have much need for their services.  Papelbon hopefully can still get you a major league ready prospect with his recent struggles and enormous contract.  Cliff Lee or Hamels, one of their 20 million dollar plus contract has to be unloaded, and both players are the only real talent that will get you true value on the market.  Chooch at this point won’t get you much, but I like Kratz with his minor league story-line and local connections, let him catch and bring up Tommy Joseph for some experience.

The product on the field is really hard to watch but we force ourselves to tune in anyway.  We need to consider what the product will be in 2014. This consideration process must be made correctly before the July 31st trade deadline, and even with the waiver-trade period that comes later down the line.   I hate this feeling, but also can’t ignore it.  It’s a sad ending to how good this team was, and we will always be hunted by the fact that we never won a second World Series.

Jeff Kolsky

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mhenski
mhenski
July 25, 2013 12:39 pm

2 things

1 papelbon will not got you a major league ready prospect, you would be lucky to get a prospect with a little upside. only way we get something for him is if we eat half the deal

2 you do not want tommy joseph on your aaa team let alone your pro team, he blows

paulman
paulman
July 25, 2013 12:55 pm

Lee to the Orioles or Pirates would make both Teams Legitimate Contender’s but could they afford or willing to afford his Contract..
Very unlikely.. Lee will not Pitch for the Yankee’s and Texas just traded for Garza so the Market for Lee is pretty small …
I could see the Red Sox and Reds and now maybe the Braves (who lost Tim Hudson for the Season with broken ankle) all inquiring about him
a Dark Horse Team could be the Cleveland Indians or Arizona Diamondbacks who would look at Lee as the Ace of their Staffs for the next 2-3 Seasons and be a solid Mentor to their Current Staffs

Papelbon to the Detroit Tigers who are still searching for a legitimate CLoser
and YEs, even the Red Sox need a Closer but very unlikely he would go there

Utley would be nice Fit to the Oakland A’s or LA Dodgers who need an everyday 2B with Playoff Experience and Hitting
Oakland has a Solid Bullpen & Closers (Balfour & R Cook along with Nesheck & Chavez) and would not be interested in Papelbon at all.

M Young & C Ruiz would be great Fits for the Yankees who are desperate for a 3B & CAtcher who have RH Bats and can hit, drive in runs and have Playoff Experience..

D Young is best suited as an AL Player due to his Bat as a DH but would need to be package with another player or two to return any Value

mhenski
mhenski
July 25, 2013 1:42 pm
Reply to  paulman

phillies only problem with lee is the team has no pitchers under control next year not named cole, they would have 4 spots to fill…

paulman
paulman
July 25, 2013 2:17 pm
Reply to  mhenski

I agree and think the Phils have to retain Lee, hope that Hamel’s rebounds, maybe re-sign Kendrick to a reasonable 3 Year Deal and then let the young Arms battle for the 4th/5th Spot if they want to remain competitive in 2014/2015..
Remember, that the NL East is not very Strong right now,
Braves has Starting Pitching Issues, Batting LIne-Up who stike out a lot,
Nationals have some big Contract Issues (Laroche,Zimmerman,Werth, etc for a undereachieving team and then have some young Players who will be looking for bigger contracts and have to make some tought decisions on where to go, for they were built to win now and it;s not working..
Met’s have the best Young Starting PItching, perhaps in the entire MLB and can add a few Bats here and there and will contend with their Solid Pitching and Defense in a big Pitcher Friendly Park and will be competitive these next couple of Seasons
Florida has a lot of talented Pitchers, but has some Veterans it needs to move away from (Pierre,Polanco,Dobbs) and allow their Younger Players to gain experience and confidence

So all in all, it’s not like the Phils have to blow up the Team to be competitive for 2014/2015.. They need to keep Cliff Lee and look to move
Papelbon, both Young’s, Chooch and even Utley and add from there

Frank22
Frank22
July 25, 2013 2:15 pm

Ruben amaro and co. are acting like a a bunch of washed up broads. Sentimental about the past, get over and trade these guys while they still have some value. I literally throw up in my mouth watching this team. Its terrible, 4-5 years ago these guys were a real joy to watch.

mhenski
mhenski
July 25, 2013 2:34 pm
Reply to  Frank22

agreed with your first 2 sentences Frank.

But just 1.5 seasons ago we were the best team in all of MLB, gave up by far the fewest runs in MLB and had the 2nd best run differential in mlb. Last year was kinda of a flukey year for us, but this season is all on Reub imo. Cant put that outfield out there from day 1, just cant.

paulman
paulman
July 25, 2013 2:44 pm
Reply to  mhenski

You do have to remember that the Competition in the NL has improved tremendously from where it was 3-4 Seasons ago where you had the Phils,Cards,SF Giants,Braves,Brewers and that was about it …
Now there are 4-5-6 other Good Teams like the Reds,PIrates,Dodgers,Diamondback,Rockies,Nats that all have Talent,Youth,Deep Farm System and have many Core Players that are not locked up yet with Overpriced long-term Contracts (outside the Dodgers) that evntually catch up to you and tie your hands as an Organization

haveacigar
haveacigar
July 25, 2013 2:52 pm
Reply to  paulman

Fraud man you continue to turn a blind eye all teams are locking their young players up and they do it either pre-arbitration or during arbitration year one. But it’s the cost of doing business. Look at the brewers who are locked into Ryan fraud for 10 years. Without juice his body will break down and he will never match his MVP numbers.

mhenski
mhenski
July 25, 2013 3:00 pm
Reply to  haveacigar

speaking of juice phillies whole team needs some

haveacigar
haveacigar
July 25, 2013 6:04 pm
Reply to  paulman

You forgot to mention the mets, marlins, cards, houston, Arizona as the good teams in 08 as they all finished over 500. Oh and the braves and giants who you do mention we’re sub500 in 08… Never let facts get in the way of your argument fraudman

paulman
paulman
July 25, 2013 2:37 pm
Reply to  Frank22

This is one of the big Problems and with Philly Sports Fans in particular..
They get way too attached to their Players emotionally.. Many Fans have skewed thoughts about the perceptions of Player’s Currrent Abilitites and what Players did in the Past and hang onto the good memories for too long
and usually certain Players (Typically White, Good Looking Players) seem to get a Free Pass longer from the Local Media/Fans that other Players.. We have seen it many times with Eagle Players, Flyers and Phillies where too many Fans hold onto Past Performances and Production as opposed to what the Player brings to the Table in the Present..

mhenski
mhenski
July 25, 2013 2:48 pm
Reply to  paulman

i think thats global paul not just a philly thing…

Frank22
Frank22
July 25, 2013 2:42 pm

I see what you are saying.. Last year was a little flukey, but we saw this trend coming to fruition with the age and injuries. Victorino would be the first guy to give up his body to make a play, than he became a little bit of a diva. Chase is chase and always plays hard but injuries have taken its toll. Same with Ruiz, plays hard but far to often injured. With the success the team has had, they lost their edge. That’s my opinion, but I surely have been wrong before.

mhenski
mhenski
July 25, 2013 2:49 pm
Reply to  Frank22

no that opinion is spot on frank

Frank22
Frank22
July 25, 2013 2:45 pm

I agree paulman, but these executives became executives for a reason. They need to be shrewd and cut off the emotional attachment. They need to make these decisions that bare best for the future of the Phillies. Not needing to worry about the feelings of an emotional fan base.

mhenski
mhenski
July 25, 2013 2:50 pm
Reply to  Frank22

totally agree frank and it really chaps my ass these guys coming out saying chase should be a philly for life and blah blah blah. you are paid to be smart, calculated, weigh risks and reward not be emotional and worried about players feelings and philly legacy… jackasses man, chases philly legend doesnt change if we trade him. he is a world fucking champ

haveacigar
haveacigar
July 25, 2013 2:58 pm
Reply to  mhenski

No one has mentioned the terms of this rumored contract. I don’t believe it is an emotional decision by the organization. There has to new blood no doubt but at what price FOR THE PHIL’S Brand is right for utley. Organizations look at millions the way we look at buying Girl Scout cookies from the kid next door.

Frank22
Frank22
July 25, 2013 3:03 pm
Reply to  haveacigar

Salisbury just called it a hunch, no definitive source.

Frank22
Frank22
July 25, 2013 2:54 pm

Lol…. Bingo. No matter where chase goes he will always be a Phillie, greatest Phillie of my life time.. World fuckin champ

jakedog
jakedog
July 25, 2013 3:18 pm

Phillies management is not ruled by emotions, attachment to players, they look at the bottom line, the bottom line is profit, and if they can squeeze two more year’s out of utley at his current level of production it helps the brand, ashaveacigar says, or the bottom line, he’s popular, and he’s a positive influence in the clubhouse all of which helps win, brings people to the games

Far too many of you guys think it’s easy to be a gm, that you like this player, that player, that with a snap you could put together a better team than amaro, it’s not that easy.

mhenski
mhenski
July 25, 2013 3:28 pm
Reply to  jakedog

i think being a gm is very hard and i also think that up until the end of last offseason reuben did what was necessary to keep this team in a prime spot to keep competing for a world series.

i assume he had several plans this off season and none of them worked hence the reason we have the outfield we have…

i dont think utley helps the brand more than winning, so imo u trade him for some prospects then resign him if you want. phils will have plenty of money this offseason to do so.

and when you have the gm talking about how utley deserves this and deserves that to the media, its emotions not about profit or winning its emotions

here is what he said:

“He’s been an iconic player for us,” general manager Ruben Amaro said Friday. “My intention would be to keep him in our uniform for the rest of his career, if possible.

“I kind of view Chase as a Phillie for life. That’s my hope.”

he uses ” He’s been an iconic player for us” , has been…

“I kind of view Chase as a Phillie for life. That’s my hope.” thats just emotions not profits bro, you should be doing your god damn job to field the best team not hoping and wishing …

haveacigar
haveacigar
July 25, 2013 3:53 pm
Reply to  mhenski

GM speak,coaches speak… It isPCbullshit you can’t believe a word of it. It’s a smoke screen as is everything that every GM says a week before trade deadline. Actually these guys are NEVER candid with the media , nor SHOULD they be. If they keep chase rot race him it will be a calculated business decision… If they keep him at let’s say 10.. They believe that he will add value on the field at that level.

Butch007
Butch007
July 25, 2013 5:38 pm

Re-signing Utley would be a gargantuan mistake…he’s still going to demand more than he’s worth and the organization is still going to have to find a replacement to play his position for 50% or more of the season with very little salary demands and mediocre talent. Papelbon can get trade if the Phillies can land a closer and/or get a competent reliever. Maybe Cliff Lee, but given his age and his bad play I doubt you’re gonna get much for him besides there’s still a chance he may bounce back for a season or two. Halladay’s another guy that’s not really going to be able to demand a lot, but the Phillies should consider a single year contract. The Phils should run and not walk to the idea of making a run at Eric O’Flaherty, Shin-Soo Choo and Jim Johnson. If they let Utley go, trade Papelbon and get Halladay on a small one year deal they should be able to afford those three players and have enough youth to be in a good position to win.

haveacigar
haveacigar
July 25, 2013 5:57 pm
Reply to  Butch007

“he’s going to demanda huge salary”… Question. Who’s side of the negotiation table were you sitting on when you heard that? Cliff lee has had two bad games as he always does so ‘bad play’ … I wpOuld question that term… That said I think he is still a GREAT trade chip and would consider it.
My point with utley is that it is a very vogue thing right now to dump him… I get but the Phil’s as all teams see things from a different perspective then us fans…
As for the Phil’s getting a closer and trading that weirdo papplebon ….the ‘best closer on the market is papplebon’…. These pieces just aren’t out there

jott1972
jott1972
July 25, 2013 10:04 pm

every smart baseball fan saw the Phillies as a mediocre team when the season began…. Amaro went into the season with a pathetic outfield and bullpen… he continues to make poor decisions and not be held accountable…then you have Manuel, the retarded in game manager who couldnt manage his way out of a paper bag…. good guy, but terrible strategic manager during games….
its like the Ed Wade era all over again…

haveacigar
haveacigar
July 25, 2013 10:25 pm
Reply to  jott1972

He won all those games by luck. He did nothing ‘in game’ to contribute

bugsyhawk
bugsyhawk
July 26, 2013 8:26 am
Reply to  haveacigar

Charlie has done plenty of good things over his tenure as manager, but he never gets credit for those. Instead, every focuses on the things that didn’t work out. Tired of the hypocrisy here. It may be time for him to go, but let’s not solely focus on negative things.

bugsyhawk
bugsyhawk
July 26, 2013 8:28 am
Reply to  bugsyhawk

And I know you were being sarcastic HAC. This was for jott. It is popular to make fun of Charlie because of the way that he talks. People associate his background with lack of intelligence similiar to how a lot of Philly fans questioned Hamels toughness because he is from CA.

DCar
DCar
July 25, 2013 11:54 pm

They’ve been finished since the 2012 season started, & Ruin 2morrow, kept patching the team up with band-aids, bubble gum, has-beens & never-will-be’s!!!! Just saying………