It just gets worse and worse.
A team that is destined to miss the playoffs for the third consecutive year, currently residing in the basement of the N.L. East with a miserable 47-61 record was unable to make a single move before the July 31st non-waiver trade deadline.
That’s right, Phillies’ village idiot General Manager Ruben Amaro Jr was unable to work out a single trade.
Despite the fact that Amaro and anyone with a pulse could have seen months ago that this team had absolutely no shot to accomplish anything, and had ample time to prepare for this deadline and work out deals with other teams, the bumbling general manager wasn’t even close to making a single move.
And so the deadline has passed.
No fresh talent has been acquired.
No hope for the 2015 season exists, with a terrible roster whose core will only age another year and see their talents degenerate further.
How could this happen? What has lead to the outrageous mess that this team has become? When I look at this situation, there are three main points that stick out to me that brought the team to the point where they can’t make a single move at a trade deadline to try and improve themselves for the future.
Terrible Contracts With Ridiculous Vesting Options
Guys like Jonathan Papelbon or Marlon Byrd have been performing very well this year, and they might have had a lot of value for contending teams…if not for a major problem within their contracts.
Vesting options.
When drawing up the contracts for Papelbon and Byrd, Ruben Amaro saw fit to include easily attainable vesting options for 2016 in both of their contracts. No matter how much money of their deals that the Phillies’ offered to eat, any team interested in these guys were just completely scared away by the idea of paying Papelbon and Byrd significant money. What team wants to potentially have a burnt out Jonathan Papelbon with his personality on their roster for $13 million in 2016? No one with half a brain.
Even the contracts for Jimmy Rollins, Chase Utley, Cliff Lee, and A.J. Burnett have similar options in their deals that just destroy their value.
A General Manager That Doesn’t Know How To Sell
Ruben Amaro just flat out doesn’t understand how to sell.
I believe that Amaro has been gunshy about selling ever since the 2009 Cliff Lee deal and the 2012 Shane Victorino and Hunter Pence deals blew up in his face. He’s too afraid of letting go of big names like Utley and Rollins without receiving some absolute can’t-miss prospects.
Amaro’s failure to evaluate Phillippe Aumont, Tyson Gillies, J.C. Ramirez (Cliff Lee deal), Josh Lindblom, Ethan Martin (Shane Victorino deal), or Tommy Joseph (Hunter Pence deal) has just killed this team. Amaro also missed badly when scouting Ben Revere in the Vance Worley deal. He doesn’t know how to find diamonds in the rough of team’s farm systems, and this has led to him overvaluing the players he currently has and thus has him asking for the moon with every player he has to sell.
Two straight years now, the Phillies should have been in a full-scale sell mode, and Amaro has for two years in a row failed to make a move.
The same old names remain, and get worse and worse (and Amaro extends their deals). No new talent comes in.
An Ownership Group That Fears Letting Go Of The Past
David Montgomery, team president and voice of the team’s ownership group has stated numerous times that the team isn’t interested in a full-scale rebuild.
Montgomery says that they “owe it to the fans” to try and remain as competitive as possible. But the reality is that Montgomery fears parting with the team’s biggest names with the idea that no Chase Utley or no Jimmy Rollins means no fans in the stands.
Moving guys like Chase Utley and Jimmy Rollins was never truly a realistic option for just this reason.
Montgomery is in for quite the rude awakening. Citizens Bank Park is doomed to become a ghost town and a wasteland for the rest of this summer and next season as well. No one wants to come out and see this garbage, and even the most diehard of Phillies’ fans should stay far away from the ballpark until some significant and legitimate change occurs.
Final Thoughts
Its absolutely outrageous that the Phillies couldn’t make a single move.
Add those three factors I mentioned above together, and you get the result that you see today: a losing team with deep-rooted problems that was completely incapable of making a single move to acquire any kind of talent, and thus has no hope for the future.
No one expected the Phillies to acquire elite prospects.
But we expected that at the very least, the Phillies would move on from some of these veterans and give themselves at least a little flexibility to improve themselves next off-season. We expected to see some kind of sign that there’s some sense of urgency within the organization to fix things. We got none of that.
Whether you are a buyer or a seller, the trade deadline is one of the best opportunities to acquire talent. And Ruben Amaro and the Phillies completely and utterly failed.
This is completely unacceptable, and it really says a great deal about how frightening the future looks for this franchise.
I agree Denny and hate to say “I told you so”
A GM of any Professional Sport Franchise must have these 3-4 Attributes and Skills in order to be Succesful
1) Ability to Evaluate Talent..
2) Abililty to know the “Market Value” of Players within your Sport in relation if what’s happening in your Sport
3) Ability to Manage, Negoitiate Fair Contracts based on True Market Value so as not to tie up the oraganizations hands 1-2-3 Years down the road
4) Provide Real Leadership & Vision which steers the Oraganizations in an improving, hopeful upbeat direction which includes understand the risk and benefits of having a short term plan that meshes with the long term plans of the Organization in terms of seriously competing for Championships..
Reuben Amaro has none of these “Baseball Skilks” and his background is that of a Marketing person selling Tickets, promotions and enhancing Fans visits to the ballpark which he did succeed in this area his previous role, but as any Marketer knows from basis principles, it always begins with your “Product”
And ever since Amaro has been the GM, the Phils have gotten worse and worse each year under his leadership
He is known around MLB Circles as a shoot from the hip decision maker with no real plans or basis on sound risk/benefit analysis on how to build a Roster, manage Contracts, oversee the development of a Minir League and Player Development Program from Scouting to Coaching so it’s no surprise for me to sit here in 2014 and not see this demise coming.. In fact I expect little to no activity this Trade Deadline due to the fact that other GM’s have little to no respect or trust Amaro and that he comes across as befuddled, scatter brain and without a plan and contingency plans for when things don’t go your way
It is what it is and Phils will continue their demise as a basement club in which Players & Free Agents are not interested in coming to Play for such
A Dysfunctionable Front Office .. It’s a shame for us Fans..
Agree 100% Denny, just as I predicted Amaro would not do anything. This is the reason why I refuse to watch 1 friggin out! One friggin strike! Go to 1 friggin game! This asshole and these owners think they have the fans over a barrel. Well they do if idiots continue to go to the games, buy items,or even watch this team pretend to be able to play major league baseball live or on tv. i have not watched more than handful of games in the past3yrs, have not been to a game 3yrs I cant stand the way this owner and gm do business its an insult to me and should be to everyone that is a true phillies fan When I told fans on this site things bout this team and owners I had some assholes get belligerent with me too bad I was telling them the truth and they found out too late well you know what the truth hurtslike I told you before Denny its shame you have to waste your time on these bums however I know you have a job to do and in my opinion you are doing a helluva good one at that i’m out tc.
This whole organization from top to bottom has to be purged scouts, player development. player evaluators, instructors at minor league level and move up to major league level where ever it may apply to pitching coach, hitting base line coaches etc, first to go should be amaro shame dallas green isnt in his prime he would be good fit. As long as these owners are running the show you’re going to have problems personally I think this franchise is finished unless they get an owner that has a baseball mentality and cares for this loyal fanbase that has been the cornerstone of this city and team for decades!
You been consistent and calling like it is Don P…
You, DCar & myself and I am sure many others who follow the Sport closely saw this train wreck coming 2-3 Seasons ago…
Wonder where Haveacigar is for he has been awful quiet today..
Maybe HAC is really Reuben Amaro… Ha
he is ridiculous the way he wrote some of these contracts up for key players starting with howard just the fact he had 2 yrs before hitting free agency and he panicked and gave him an outlandish contract when he could have waited. letting Lee go and having to go through hell to get him back while screwing the team up, we had a shot to have won at least 3 ws in my opinion 3 thats right and wonder boy destroyed it, he had a chance to make things right before he signed rollins but he elected to keep signing the older players and not getting younger in key positions along with not giving the few young minor league players we had a shot to play ruf being one and giles brought up sooner i could go on and on but whats the sense i need a vacation in fl c u all lol
I have a bad feeling that Amaro and Sandberg will also be back next year, along with all of the dreck that we failed to part ways with today.
But I also think that the Phillies will REALLY feel it at the gate next year with attendance falling to new record lows for Citizen’s Bank Ballpark.
Or hopefully today was the final nail in Amaro’s coffin, and both him and Sandberg get shown the door at season’s end. This organization needs new leadership desperately.
Just think, it’s even worse now. Didn’t trade Lee, now he gets hurt again, & might be done for the year. Forget about trading him now! This cruel joke, is getting to Broadway Comedy epic proportions. I don’t like to use the word hate, but I absolutely hate this organization right now! From the absentee ownership-.300 Montgomery- Ruin 2morrow- Player personell group- Scouts- Player developement- Medical staff- AARP lineup! F^#@ them all!
YEAH RUBEN, we can still wait until the waiver deadline & offseason to still make deals??? You f^#@ing stupid, incompetent, overmatched, inept, f^#@ing failure!!!!!
Story by Jim Salisbury.
Phillies general manager Ruben Amaro Jr. blamed the rest of baseball, not himself, for his team’s inability to pull off a deal before Thursday’s 4 p.m. non-waiver trade deadline.
“I’m not necessarily disappointed,” he said moments after the deadline. “I’m more surprised that there wasn’t more aggressive action from the other end. We have some pretty good baseball players here. Our goal all along was to try to improve the club and there really wasn’t a deal to be made that would help us do that.”
“In this day and age, I think one of the most over-coveted elements of baseball are prospects,” he said. “I don’t know how many prospects that have been dealt over the last several years have really come back to bite people in the ass. I think teams are really kind of overvaluing in some regards.”
All you need to know about this worthless POS!
I was at Nat’s Park yesterday didn’t get there til the 4th…when I saw no Lee Howard etc on the scoreboard I was excited as hell lol…then my buddy comes up to me with a beer and killed my buzz before it started lol his exact words…”Dude their all still here…” Lol
To IJ,
Whats the buzz around DC with D-Jax.. Are the Fans & Media Pumped
It appears that RGIII & D-Jax,Garcon are hitting it off pretty well so far..
The fans will be pumped up around here regardless of what the Skins do. A guy once told me Tim Hightower was gonna be the best Skins free agent pickup in 20 years lol…
However all is well here…slight scare when he tweaked the hammy but the for the most part they are waiting to see it on the field.
If he catches a bomb in preseason or takes one to the house…all hell will break loose.
However the kid they drafted Moses is struggling and looks like their line will not have any real upgrades etc. Gruden is adamant that the offense will not feature read option and it will be a west coast style of offense. I dont see how that fits well with Subway Bobs skill set.
Moses is a real project.,, He’s soft and does not have the “fire” to play in the NFL and will get lit up all Season Long playing RT..
LOL my brother in law is a Skins fan they think DJax is going to put their offense in another category, it’s funny because with the state of that oline, old Bob won’t make it to week 8.
I love these articles and posts where everyone is a great GM after the fact, the thing everyone won’t acknowledge is if these players are so bad why would anyone give up anything of value for any of these guys? Now I agree in hindsight moves should of been made years ago but that time is gone. And the contracts guess what? Every GM structures contracts the same way with vesting options so what’s the issue with that?
Big, every GM doesn’t give the stupid vesting options, too many years, contracts setting the market with ancient AARP members, & overpayments, like our retarded GM has. Has nothing to do with after the fact, or hindsight. Mostly all his moves, minus Lee, Halladay (Then stupidly traded Lee, for no reason), Pence (Before we traded him for squat), were horrific at the time, & many of us stated so.
Guys my point is this at this stage it’s damn if you do and damn if you don’t, if you take lesser prospects just to clear space hoping to strike gold that’s just stupid. If you just hold on the these guys it’s equally stupid. Howard unless he changes his approach is done just eat his contract and move on. Lee with his injury history is useless as well. The vesting options is just bad business period. You have Hamels, Giles hopefully Franco and Crawford who is years away. I just depressed myself I need a drink.
Lion I have been pretty supportive as the Phil’s made moves on 9,10,11 to try to win and that depletes the youth . And yes many don’t acknowledge those moves and the great chances they gave us . (Pence, Oswald, Ibanez). But there are several things I don’t agree with. The options for choocj and Byrd. And the failure to move anything yesterday. I don’t think u should make moves just for the sake of making moves but give me something .
He emphatically stated that this would not be the roster in April to me that says eat Howard’s money . Guy is cooked don’t know if he was a juicer but….
Hey big use your head man everyone realizes you aint getting good players for mediocre ones but i would have did the hamels deal and made sure i got at least one stud and 2 prospects after doing my homework but see amaro cant do a deal like that hes too stupid and stubborn la would have done business with us but not only can he not construct a contract right and evaluate one but he cant make simple logical decisions. Now if that isnt obvious to you then you’re either stupid or related to the jerkoff!Just because he didnt do those so called deals yrs ago like u r saying doesnt mean he cant do any now please u think gms do a deal and omg yrs went by i’ll never do deal again golly me. First friggin deal is etched in stone FIRE AMARO !
I agree with much of the above but what happen to the people that said they would give up the next 10 seasons for one championship? I guess they are giving their wish
Good Point Dtime….
Philly Fans and Franchises are too damn sentimental, want to hold onto Players that brought your Championships even though their Skills have diminished.. We see the Elite Franchises continually updating their Rosters even after successful Seasons and Championships, like the Red Sox, Cardinals,Yankees and now, even the good recent Teams like Detroit,Oakland are making moves and not standing pat…
Its the New ERA with many Teams having young, aggressive GM’s who are taking advantage of those 2nd Wildcard Spots that if your playing .500 Ball by late July, with a good move or 2 can keep you in the WIldcard Hunt which we all know, the key is to get into the Post-Season and then anything can happen, a Hot Pitcher or Two or a Hot Batter or Two and can become Champions…
Detroit hasn’t won a series since 84 and A’s since the 70’s and yanks since 2009…. Only one team that went all in is going to win the WS but you have to go for it. When the Phil’s were contenders they made these moves that you are taliking about now paul…then as you say anything can happen…
Both Tigers/A’s have made the Post-Season the last 2-3 Years in a Row and are knocking on the Door again and they both made strong additions to get them their Championships.. they have become what the Phils were in 2008/2009 which is Legitimate Contenders…
Oh I thought making the post season but not winning it was not a successful season…that’s what you said about the Phil’s…I can’t keep your ideas straight because they tend to move around a bit
You misunderstood me HAC
The Phil’s haven’t made the Post-Season since
2011 so they are no longer an elite Team and way the Front Office acts, or doesn’t act has made them irrelevant by being out of even the Wild-Card Races the last 3 Seasons and are getting worse and worse, without a plan of action..
Hoping Howard returns to 2010 Level is wishful thinking..
It ain’t happening, neither is Cliff Lee ever returning to
An Ace Status, it’s called time and GM Amaro us standing still
As if he’s frozen in time, that’s what I have a problem with and when you compare the a Phillies as an elite Franchise as if they arrived on the big stage with the perennial big boys, you are wrong
Phils had a great 4-5 year run, but it’s been over for 3 Years now and Sports are like everything else, what have they done for us lately?
And the answer is not much but get worse ..
Paul I understand where the team is at this point. I’m making a comparison that when the Phil’s were dominating and going to playoffs you were ultra critical that making the playoffs mean nothing. Now all of a sudden getting in and having a shot is a good thing, running into a hot pitcher is part of the game (as per your above post). When it happened to the Phil’s and I mentioned that you said I was making excuses… And i said at the time paul running into a hot pitcher or team is part of the game.
I stated the same very thiñgs about Amaro &Co
In 2012,2013 & 2015 HAC…
I am sorry that it’s taken you 3 Seasons to see the path
That the Franchise has been on for a good while now
They are 30 Games below .500 over that last 450 Games,for cryiñg out loud with a Top 3-4 Payroll for cripes sake..
This is not a “Bad Luck” Season.. This is a bad Franchise going in the wrong direction as quick as you will see in all of Baseball..
I realize no one wants to hear that the Phillies did what they needed to do to stay contending for championships. They over paid to keep their stars and they depleted their farm system to get additional players to help win now. When Ryan Howard was up for a contract it was all about ” pay the man he deserves it.” My point with the above was fans were all about winning champions and were glad to trade a championship for many down years if they needed to. In the past when the Eagles cut players like Westbrook and Dawkins because of age we called them cheap. We got what we asked for with the Phillies and it’s now time to pay the price.
Like many I wonder if Amaro is the guy to bring the Phillies back to championship contention but let’s be fair.
Yup. They want their cake and eat it too
no paul you were saying the same things in 9,10, 11 when they were going for it…thats what i’m saying when they were all in those years you called them unsuccessful…yet when the A.s or the tigers are all in and aren’t successful you say “ran into a tough staff’ ‘ran into a hot hitter”…thats baseball… i said those same things in 9,10 and 11 and you criticezed… paul you are a hypocrite fan..
Bottom line is Amaro inherited a WS caliber team and initially, made some moves that showed an “all in” mentality which I was ok with (Halladay, Pence. Lee). Oswalt was an ok move, but only became necessary because Amaro inexplicably traded Lee away for garbage prior to the season. The next year, the Phils as a team choked in the play-offs against STL. At that point you have an aging, injured, underperforming roster and most observers half way through the season could see it was time to begin a rebuild. Amaro tried, but traded the wrong guys ( Vic & Pence) and got a net zero for both, esp. after giving up the farm to get Pence. Two trade deadlines came and went after that and rather than slowly trade or not resign the aging nucleus, Amaro opted to not just resign them, but give them poisonous contracts, as well as sign other aging players that make what we saw this trade deadline a reality. No GM will give you a blue chip prospect for an old, mediocre player with a poisonous contract. Amaro was a decent steward initially guiding Gillick’s winning club, but has demonstrated that he has no eye for young talent or ability to craft realistic contracts. Obviously a rebuild is what’s needed going forward (as it was three years ago), but I have no confidence in Amaro doing it.
Couple things bout the pence trade: when they traded for pence they got him at a team friendly price for 18 months, when they sold him the giants only got him for 3 months he was strictly a rental. Also, they got tommy Joseph who was a top 1-3 prospect int he giants organization.
And if he kept victorino you guys would be bitching about a $13 million dollar broken down player!
But the main points to me about the Pence trade is they gave up 3 premier prospects to get him & a fourth “throw in” that turns out is also pretty good and got back one ok prospect with concussion issues. Pence was 29 y/o. I’d have much rather kept him at 29 and I believe he was arbitration eligible. You have a point with Victorino. The WS he won the next year makes you forget he was declining as well. But Amaro got less than nothing for him too.
His concussion issues began after the trade making it moot. Three ‘top prospects’ check your facts. Did you not understand 18 month vs. 3 months of team control
Pence was not arb eligible a total FA signed for about 18 a year. Will be 35-36 his final years of that contract.
I believe u are incorrect about Pence’s Contract Status
When they obtained him in 2011
I recall that was up for Arbitration after 2011 and Phils signed him for about
$10-$11 Million for 2012 Season as he was not up for Free-Agency yet,
Until after the 2012 Season
Right meaning he couldn’t walk away from the Phil’s. He was still an 18 month player for them and a 3 month player for giants.
All he does is Bat .280-.285 and Hit 20-25 Hrs and knock in 80-85 RBI’s
With about 15-20 Stolen Bases and Play a good RF, not a great Defender, but Good with a very good arm.. You check his Career Stats
And he has one of the most consistent stats year in and year and I think
Was in late 20’s when aphids got him..
If they were smart they could have signed him to a long term Deal
After 2011 for about $13-15 Million per Year which was Market
And not that $18-19 that is Market now…
Paul they could not have signed him for that! His agent knows the market! Why do you always ASSUME what people can sign for? He knew he was an &18 million man based on the stats YOU quoted!
He is a very very good player. I wish ey kept him! He was in a tough spot here because of Howard’s injury but yes they should have signed him even at $18
Paul pence got $90 for 5 years. At which point he will be 35 meaning coming into one/two year contract time of career. But you say that gm Paul could have gotten him for 5years at $70 million…leaving $20 million on the table ? Do you not follow sports and athletes?
He got that Deal from the Giants following the
2012 Season HAC
Phillies could have probably extended for 5 & $75 after
2011 if they choose
Either way, he is still worth that for look at his consistent production every year of his Carrer..
Oh right and since you were in the room during negotiations you are sure that was what Penders people wanted and bow that is still 15 million left on the table!
The market for OF after 2011 was not above $15 Million Per Season
Like it was after 2012.. Pence was very happy in Philly as he stated
So many times publicly and was very disappointed when getting traded
Phils after 2011 should have locked him up and not pkay the game like they did and lost out on a good solid player at the time and has continued to be so some 3 Seasons later…
The Phils in 2012 with injuries to both Utley & Howard had Pence up and down that lineup and expected bigger power numbers from him which is not his game.. He’ll hit 25 HR’s but is more of a line drive, contact hitter
They F’d the entire Pence Deal up if you ask me…
Paul you continue to show your ignorance and bias. He is a very very good mlb player hence he would not sacrifice $15-20 million. You always assume a player and his agents will take less to play in philly…fool
There were zero outfielders available.. He could have gotten more than $18
Do your Research HAC
After 2011 Season , Solid good OF were
Getting $13-15 Per Million Open Market
After 2012 – $16-$18 Range Per Season
After 2013 – $18 + Per Seaon
Pence was not going from Salary Arbitration
To $18 Million per Season after the 2011 Season
Phils Screwed up, why can’t u just admit it..
A 5 Year Deal in 2011 would have had Pence locked
Up until he was 36.. Which is what Byrd is now?
Paul there were no good outfielders do your research
There were a few but not many
(Aaron Rowand,Austin Kerns, Mike Cameron)
But the fact that there weren’t big name OF Free-Agents has nothing to do with the fact that the Phils should have locked
In Pence after 2011.. They didn’t have to go to Pence’s final arbitration year and wait to after 2012??
In Summer of 2011 when they gave up 2-3 Highly Rated Prospects for him, don’t u think you would have thought that they wanted Pence around for longer than a season ? Thru F’d up the entire Pence time
They either gave up too much for him to obtain as a rental player
Traded him away for too little or did not try hard enough to retain him…. Any way you slice it, Anaro F ‘d Up Big Time
And Remember that all during the 2011, 2012 Pence stated publicly a few tines that he wanted to remain a Phillie with a long-term deal
Paul those guys are out of baseball! Pences agent knows the market and wasn’t going to settle for 12-14 as you indicate… Agents don’t leave 15-25 million on the table… There were no viable OF free agents.. Why would pence settle for below market! You admit he was the top market piece that year
Also you are quoted as saying one of the best trades in Phil’s history… A very good player for a couple of prospects… Once again flip flop paul
They were out of BB that year lol
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And receive the Cavs SG Dion Waiters and a Future
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Cole is on a streak as good as we have seen in a long time!
Paul when you analyze a FA market and compare a 30 yr old 285 ,22 hr, 85 RBI guy understand that you can’t compare him to a market of three guys out of the league come on that’s embarrassing even for you
We are talking almost 3 Seasons ago HAC
Pence wanted to be a long term Phillie who gave up a lot to acquire him
And have him away for nothing..
It was a great Deal at the the time but only would have remained so if they retained him for they could have easily but failed to do so…
Another genius move by Amaro that was the beginning of his downfall
In my opinion
Paul you revisionist historian .. For a three month rental they got a giants (one of your top franchises) prospects you nitwit! They got nothing? Are you an idiot. Good thing it’s the summer flip flops are in season
Joseph was a top 3 prospect in giants organization. Paul you continue to know nothing
Joseph was only available from the Giants because they had a better Prospect in Cathcer Posey ahead of him so Joseph wasn’t going to remain with the Giants much longer anyways…Oh and the Phils got
Nick Scherholtz too for a 5-6 Year Proven .285 Hitter and 25 HR & 80RBI everyday Player ..
Pence was not a 3-Month Rental you Fool..
They kept him after 2011 and signed him on a 1 year Arbitration Deal
For 2012 and then traded him once Amaro Panicked at
Trade-Deadline July 2012 so Pence Played almost 1 full season with the Phils (July 2011 thru July 2012)
Thru failed to lock him up after 2011 Season and turned a great Trade into a Terrible one…
He was a three month rental to the giants . Joseph was a top three prospect those are facts revision historian
Giants retained Pence after obtaining him from the Phils in 2013
And signed him to long-term deal so obviuosly he was
not just in their plans for a 3 month rental just like he wasn’t for the Phils when they traded 3 Prospect for him a year earlier..
Giants ponied up and got a good solid MLB player in his prone years for them and helped the Giants win a Championship
Giants won out big time of that deal…
But Paul he was a FA the Phil’s sold him as a rental are you dense?
So your saying the Giants took a flyer on Pence and traded a Top Prospect of theirs for a a rental Player??? GM Brian Saeben of the Guants is one of the very best GM’s in MLB.. You don’t think the Giants did their homework on Pence and knew thry had a very good chance of retaining him since he was part of their Core moving forward since the Giants had been looking for an everyday RF for a while before trading for Pence…
Don’t you think Teams have conversations with Players & Agents while they talk about obtaining them… C’Mon Man..
The agiants GM is a Professional and not a shout from the hip decision maker like Amaro is.. You can’t assume other well run organizations think like the Phils do for you would be very wrong
The Giants obtained a RF in his Prime, with good Consistent stats while Trading away a Top Prospect, you don’t think they had plans to resign him afterwards.. That it was the “Market” that kept him in San Francisco.. They wanted him and got him and now have RF Set since 2012 and will likely remain for his playing career as a Giant
The giants knew Joseph would get concussions. Lol
Oh and buster posey had a 100 mil contract! Paul you are goofy and mentally challenged. It’s ok man I know u say a million things and when you get called on it it can be embarrassing chill outan
Paul one thing I like bout u is that u never get in the way of your point of view. You ignore facts as well as anybody!
The facts are that the Phil’s Trade of Pence was a huge Baseball Mistake
Regardless of who they gave up, and who they got in return..
The RF Position has been a turnstile ever since
Speed depleted from line-up, RF Defense weakened,
Anyone with half a baseball brain knows this except you
HAC.. So keep playing revisionists guru, but the simple fact remains
That the RF was in good hands with Pence and has been weakened since they a Traded him…
I agree but he was an $18 m player a fact you overlook
Just to prove my point HAC,
Here is Hunter Pence’s Salary from 2012 forward
2012 (Signed by Phillies) $10.44 Million
2013 (Signed by Giants) $ 13.8 Million
2014 (A New 5 Year Deal) $16 Million
2015 $18.5 Million
2016 $18.5 Million
2017 $18.5 Million
2018 $18.5 Million
So as you can see, following the 2012 Season
Hunter Pence was not at $18 Million as I stated
The market paid him in the $13-14 Range as I indicated
Earlier..
Case is Closed my friend for you are wrong again..
Pence does not reach $18 Million Salary until 2015!!!
Which is 3 Season after he was Traded in 2012, so the “Market”
In 2013 & 2014 dis not pay that figure that you have been throwing around
In this argument of ours…
Get your facts together HAC!!!!
I know I am not right on some occasions,
But on this Topic about Hunter Pence,
I was spot on and correct …
So now as your Hunter Pence Penance,
You must say 5 Hail Mary’s and 3 Our Father’s
Before responding…
90/5=18 mil shut the fuck up
Pence signed 5 Year -$90 Million going into 2014 Season and not 2 years ago with $16 paid this Season then $18.5 for the 4 remaining years from
2015 thru 2018 as I indicated so clearly above…
You were wrong about his “Market Value” for 2013 & 2014
As I said you were…
So Go Cry somewhere else instead of acknowledging
That You actually did not know what the Market was going to pay Pence for 2 Seasons after the Phils traded him which was 2 years ago…
So they should have extended him two years before they had too? Hmm you were bitching about that with another player. Again you assume an awful lot about what he would take . You compared his11 value with 3 guys who didn’t play after 11. Funny
HAC – as it pertains to Pence, how does Boston get all-star Yoenis Cespedes from Oakland for J. Lester, a three month rental at this deadline? Lester has already stated he’d consider re-signing back with Boston in the offseason (which the Phillies should have done with Utley last season). I’m not the argumentative type, or the “sky is always falling” type, I look at things with my own eyes and draw my own conclusions. As I stated above, I was ok with some of the manuevering that Amaro did in an attempt to keep the team on top initially, but the man had no vision for the future of this team and has done a horrible job of installing younger talent, albeit from the Phils minor leagues or by way of trade. Between the lack of young talent in our system and the way many of our vets contracts are structured that make them immovable for anything other reason than salary relief, the future looks bleak. And that falls at the feet of the GM.
Cespedes is only under team control thru next season. Basically a three month rental pitcher for a 18 month rental. Boston obviously wanted him for next year
As I’ve said if the axe falls then so be it. They were all in and relied on some youngsters (brown mainly) to transition to a new era .