• June 10, 2023

Does Howie Roseman Deserve More Blame For The Eagles Problems?

The reason the Eagles have yet to win an “NFL Tournament” (also known as a Super Bowl) under Jeff Lurie could be the team’s obsession with hiring unqualified people for key positions within the organization. Obviously we all know about Juan Castillio. But, let’s not forget about the hiring of Howie Roseman as GM.

Roseman was brought into the Philadelphia Eagles organization at the age of 25 in 2000 as a salary cap staff counsel. Over the years he was able to work his way up the ranks to the positions of Director of Football Administration in 2003, then to Vice President of Football Administration in 2006, to Vice President of Player Personnel in 2008 and finally was named GM in 2010.

The man Roseman replaced, Tom Heckert, was a scout with the Miami Dolphins from 1991-2000 before joining the Eagles in 2001 and ultimately working his way up the ranks to General Manager.  Heckert, a former scout being named a GM makes sense, but Roseman a former numbers cruncher, not so much.

Roseman’s two drafts as Eagles GM have produced a total of zero Pro-Bowlers. In those drafts Roseman had a total of 6 picks in the first three rounds, out of those players ZERO were opening day starters in 2011, and only one (Danny Watkins) became a starter in 2011.

As Eagles GM, Roseman brought in a total of ten free agents, that made the roster, not counting rookie free agents.  Out of that group, only Jason Babin has made the Pro-Bowl. Babin was the only Pro-Bowler out of the 2011 “Dream Team” Eagles free agent class, a class in which Roseman  gave out roughly $122 million in contracts.

In the two seasons prior to Roseman’s tenure as the GM ,the Eagles had a combined five picks in the first three rounds. Out of those selections three out of the five are starters; DeSean Jackson, LeSean McCoy, and Jeremy Maclin, with Jackson and McCoy being named to a Pro-Bowl at least once.

In the two seasons prior to Roseman being named GM, the Eagles brought in a total of seven free agents, that made the roster, not counting rookie free agents.   Three of those seven players made at least one Pro-Bowl;  Asante Samuel, Leonard Weaver and Michael Vick.  In the two years prior to the hiring of Roseman, the Eagles signed or drafted a total of 5 players who became Pro Bowlers as Eagles.

In the two years with Roseman as GM, the team only managed to bring in one player who became a Pro Bowler as an Eagle.  Andy Reid deserves a lot of the blame for the debacle that was 2011, but is our annoyance with Reid clouding our judgment on a problem far worse than clock management.  Are we underrating the importance of the team’s GM position?

For the majority of Reid’s tenure, the Eagles always brought in players via the draft and free agency that fit the team’s scheme. In the last two seasons it appears the Eagles strayed away from that style of player evaluation.  Is it a coincidence it was the same two seasons Howie Roseman was the team’s GM?

Less than twenty minutes of research produced the facts listed above.  Did Eagles owner Jefferey Lurie overlook the fact that Roseman has struck out on both the draft and free agency before he referred to him as an “up and coming,” young executive?

Even the biggest Andy Reid detractors must admit, with Reid clearly on the hot seat going into 2012 he is already behind the eight ball with Roseman as his GM. Anyone reading this article that majored in accounting in college has to wonder, what makes Howie Roseman much different than you?

I trust my accountant with my finances, but I wouldn’t trust him to draft my fantasy football roster, much less the roster of an NFL team. I am not afraid of a post-Andy Reid era, however, I am terrified of the post-Andy Reid era if Howie Roseman is the man assisting in the coaching search.

Jerry Brennan

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Rocko
Rocko
January 10, 2012 6:58 am

A salary cap staff counsel lawyer to an NFL GM…go figure. This guy is in charge of drafting College’s best, against other GM’s who breathe football by either having have been a coach, player or scout for a number of years who know how to look out for the best players. This organization is not about going after the best GM for the job, they are about promoting their buddies and people who are not fit for the task at hand which is football. Kevin Colbert the steelers GM was an advanced scout for Detroit and Miami, and his older brother was once the head coach for st vincent college (football running in the blood and experience). Ted Thompson the GM of the packers played LB at southern methodist, the Houston oilers and was coached by Bum Phillips. He was a scout for the seahawks as well. Get my drift? these SB winning teams have GM’s who know their job and we don’t – simple as that.

paulman
paulman
January 10, 2012 7:23 am

Agree 100% Rocko, I have yet seen a “Fantasy GM” lead their team for a Championship.. Look at reall GM like Jerry Reese of the Giants, Ozzie Newsome of the Ravens.. These GM get great players who fit their schemes, Let me repeat, these GM know how to evaluate talent at the College leve, that best suits their Teams Philosophy,Schemes and needs whcih is why they are good every season..

bsmvideos
January 10, 2012 7:26 am

Does Howie Roseman Deserve More Blame For The Eagles Problems?

No, Unless his real name is Andy Reid. Crystal Ball Andy, Andy Greed, or Fat Boy.

These drafts have the Fat Mans prints on everything. Being head coach means the buck stops with Andy Reid.

paulman
paulman
January 10, 2012 7:33 am

GReat article Jerry and I support your analysis big time.. I’ve stated numerours times that one Reason Coach AR is still around is because I believe the Owner Lurie is not 100% sold on ROmseman building a Championship Team.. I truly believe the Eagles wil be limited in making a SUper Bowl Run with Roseman at the 2nd most important position of the Franchise behind it’s HC…
To be honest, I think many of the Posters on here could do a better job at Roster Managament & Drafting and Roseman has completely butchered the last 2 Drafts in which the Eagles have lots of Selections in the first 3-4 Rounds to stock this Roster with better Talent and addressing needs that this team still has for the last few seasons, namely LB, Safety and interior OL play..
His first big Decision was a disaster trading 2 # 3 Round selections to move up from #24 to #13 and selectiing DE Brandon Graham, then he compounded iy by trading a 2nd Round Pick #55 Overall to the rival Cowboys (who selected MLB Sean Lee) to get back some more 3rd & 4t ROund Picks… Look at the good teams and how they Draft, They do not move up, trade down all Draft long, They evaluarte and find the players that suit their schemes as philosoophy Drafting where they are year after year like the Ravens,Giants,Packers,Steelers…..

greenfan
greenfan
January 10, 2012 9:11 am

I have thought about this for a while. Roseman basked in the “glow” of his moves during the abbreviated free agency period….alot of national attention…”we are all in” type statements, etc….but we have yet to hear from him regarding the results of his moves.

He vastly underestimated the problems of trying to get (3) probowl corners to play in a single defensive backfield and not have issues….the belief that starting Matthews at Mike was correct instead of signing a free agent MLB like Tulloch…whether it was right or wrong, there is no denying that refusing to extend a contract to DJax greatly affected his play during the year….Steve Smith??, did our doctors believe he was fit to play??…letting Dawk & Mickell walk in the previous years and relying on unproven and lesser physical safeties…..and all of these events happened only this year…I didn’t even touch on the previous years draft and moves….

So to answer the question asked….yes, Roseman needs to be assigned greater responsibility for the outcome of this year, not merely Reid.

paulman
paulman
January 10, 2012 9:55 am

I think I stated this a few times, I knew when they Signed CB Asmo, that it was more by surprise than thorough planning and foresight.. When GM Roseman was first asked the day of the Signing, “What are your plans for Asmo and the
other 2 Pro-BOwlers DCR and Samuel” and “Were you surprised in landing Asmo” and GM Rosemans respones to both these questions were like a Kid in a candy Store with a free shopping spree..
He Responded, “Yes we were surprised in landing Asmo, and no we haven’t figured out how we will play the 3 CB’s” ?? Are you kidding me, show some intelligence, some foresight and planning …
How about instead from a confident GM who knows what he’s doing like , “We were targeting Asmo and waiting for right moment to approach him about joining the Eagles and Yes, we are elated to have 3 Pro-Bowl CB’s on ouu Roster which allows for flexibility versus the different Receiver Packegaes we will see, and our Defensive Coachces can’t wait to incorporate all 3 players on the field together

I think the bottom line was GM Roseman was giving the “Go” sign by Banner/Lurie to updgrade the Roster, no doubt about that, but the problem is that he didn’t know how to go about it and once they signed CB Asmo, they kind of used up therei allotment of most of the Salary Cap to address the LB position and or do something with D-Jax’s Deal which in turn ended up being a mistake.. If the Goal and plan was to go out and get Asmo, then why get DCR in return when maybe a LB or Safety would have been better, or why sign VY, R BRown and S SMith before addressing the Safety,LB or even D-Jax’s Deal.. VY,RB,SS were not priorites as back-ups and that collective $10 Million in 2011 Salaries paid to these 3 should have been better utilized to upgrade what everyone knew were weak positions.. (LB & Safety)

Rocko
Rocko
January 10, 2012 9:57 am

Exactly Paulman. Bsm – Roseman is the GM meaning general manager; he’s suppose to help guide and manage draft picks along with the head coach and the GM has abig say so in draft picks. just like a GM/manager at your job or workplace. A GM guides and manages the “eb and flow” of a business. Greenfan – I follow your post up until you say that roseman needs to be signed greater responsibility; do you mean he needs to have a greater share of being blamed along with reid for this failed season? I’m sure you don’t mean that roseman needs greater responsibility as far as football operations…do you?

Rocko
Rocko
January 10, 2012 10:00 am

Paulman: my man…you’re battin 1,000 so far today buddy!

greenfan
greenfan
January 10, 2012 10:13 am

Sorry for the confusion Rocko…delete responsibility and plug in blame…that would be closer to what I was trying to say…been a busy mroning …not typing or thinking great yet

navyeaglefan
navyeaglefan
January 10, 2012 10:22 am

wow – interesting article – assuming you left off Peters cause he was a trade in 09 – but here is the response

but I will start off with this – I always say wait 3 years – anyone guess what year this is for McCoy – 3rd –

so the premise is that 4 years ago and 3 years ago our draft FA brought us 5 pro bowl players – Asante (who we paid an arm and a leg for) Vick, Weaver McCoy and Djax – MCCoy adn Djax were second round steels – great work – Weaver had a great year – was signed as the highest paid FB in the NFL and the next game suffered a career ending injury – and I don;t think many people will put ‘Vick’ and ‘pro bowl’ in the same sentence –

so now lets get all in Rosemans grill –

in this year he goes out and gets Asmo and DRC – somehow as a GM he screwed that up??? Excellent pick ups and probably our twostartng corners next year. He brings in Babin and Jenkins on D – brings in LAundri (does this guy remind you of Sam Rayburm from years back) – and brings in 3/5ths of an O Line that was #4 in yards – set a franchise record for yardage, and had the #2 rusher in the NFL (you know – that McCoy guy in his third year?) – – one guy by FA and 2 by draft picks – still not seeing where the GM screwed up – because Watkins didn’t start the first game this pick is a screwup? If Kelce were drafted #1 (and Mudd is calling him the next Jeff Saturday and a future pro bowler – and Watkins 6 what is the difference> Both solid choices that if nothing else gives you hope for next season – the strength of the O and D lines RIGHT NOW give you hope – and sure they can get better Graham needs to step up and would love to see the DTs challenegd. – Graham was a 1st rounder who came in and started half the games his rookie season prior to having a knee injury – so – somehow this is Rosemans fault? I always thought it was great/smart to put a rook alongside a vet to break them in – lets look at Graham after next season –

could go on wit this but two points:

1) who cares what the guys career path was to get where he is – throwing out the guys bio (just like constantly pointing out Castillo was ‘unqualified’ because he was an oline coach) GMs come in all shapes sizes and backgrounds – there is no one career path that garuntees success – I can give multiple examples in each direction

2) give the guys 3 years – this is the big year for the Grahams, Allens, Colemans etc.. blaming Roseman now is short sighted – Coleman and Allen were playing well by the end of last season –

McCoy did not have a huge impact his rookie season, Vick did not have a huge impact his first year here, Babin did not have a huge impact his first time here, DJax took till his 2nd season to make pro bowl –

Rocko
Rocko
January 10, 2012 10:40 am

Navy – Roseman does share a big part of the blame. if you go into a new job and fail within the first year or so without added results or anything, you’ll get fired and replaced immediately. Your boss ain’t gonna wait 3 years to see the results. With the additions that we had this season and Reid promoting Castillo to D-coordinator with no experience is the most ridiculous thing to ever happen to this team. With this city and fan base. And yes DJax did have a big impact his 1st year here. You’re drunk from drinking to much of the green koolaid Navy.

YANKEESFAN2
YANKEESFAN2
January 10, 2012 10:45 am

Lol navy eagle…i hope the Eagles keep Roswman I like to thank him for Jason Pierre paul.. “D jax took UNTIL the 2nd season” ROFL!!! What a long wait!!
Great insight!

paulman
paulman
January 10, 2012 10:47 am

Some good points Navy and duly noted for the Record..,

schiller
schiller
January 10, 2012 10:55 am

Rocko – you are correct “If you go into a new job and fail within the first year or so without added results or anything, you’ll get fired and replaced immediately.”

Notice however, the urgency (lack of patience) in your tone there – “‘within the first year” “immediately”….. does that reasonably apply here? What if for example, the job required time for results to develop. Let’s say your job was to plan Ivy that would grow up a wall, and the expected maturation period for the Ivy to reach the top of the wall was 3 years. If after the second year, the Ivy hadn’t reached the top yet, would the employee be fired immediately? Hell no, not a failure according to the accepted criteria for success.

See that’s the crux – you’re criteria for success for a new GM is immediately. Uh…. that doesn’t really match for NFL football teams.

schiller
schiller
January 10, 2012 10:58 am

Paul “I knew when they Signed CB Asmo, that it was more by surprise than thorough planning and foresight.. ” — dude, I know you’re lacking in understanding about life, humans, and the future…. but sometimes you can be so pompusly idiotic….. FREE AGENCY IS NOT SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN PLAN FOR WITH ANY CERTAINTY. You have no way of knowing what/when and if other teams will make offers for who. You have no way of knowing what the player will want or when. So your criteria for judging Roseman is impossible. Get a clue. There’s not a GM in the history of the league that wouldn’t laugh at that comment of yours.

schiller
schiller
January 10, 2012 10:59 am

Paul “hindsight is 20/20” – that phrase is common wisdom for a reason – because ‘foresight’ is NOT 20/20. Take some time with that – have another individual explain it to you – or whatever it takes for you to grasp that simple, true fact.

EAGLE Co 32
EAGLE Co 32
January 10, 2012 11:00 am

Can we please take the LB from Alabama, Hightower? It’s amazing how we seem to never draft guys from the best conference in college football. I’m just saying.

greenfan
greenfan
January 10, 2012 11:13 am

I don’t think the writer (nor was I) stating that Roseman should be fired. He should share in the criticism of the outcome of this season, which to this point has mostly fallen at the feet of Big Red.

Rocko
Rocko
January 10, 2012 11:13 am

Schiller – you’re such a real douche bag man; i realize that this is the NFL and it takes time to develop a player or 2, but not the whole 3 years idiot. look at the Giants and JPP and look at us and the “high motor” guy. earl thomas and us. look at the facts man. we are always on the bottom of the totem pole with our draft picks. we may have 1 slip in every now and then but we have a terrible history of draft picks. our team is like those teams like the Bucs and so forth who wait 3-4 years to get to the playoffs and still lose in the first round. Since you’re so bent on this 3 year wait thing too shela…nevermind man yyou’re a real nut bag.

navyeaglefan
navyeaglefan
January 10, 2012 11:20 am

So Rocko – when Roseman (if he is to blame) put together 3/5ths of this O Line that led McCoy to #2 in league in rushing how was that not showing results – more rushing yardage – better in short yardage – fewer QB sacks – franchise record in yardage – again – where did Roseman not improve –

wait – did the ‘accountant’ turn the ball over a franchise record number of times –

When Roseman got Babin, Jenkins, Landri, and the team now led the league in sacks – how was that not showing improvement –

When he went out and got a new kicker – who I think had the most accurate year ever by an Eagles kicker (maybe he could have een pro bowl eligible if he had to kick 50 FGs – but the accountant kept turnng the ball over) and punter – both of who were solid players – how was that a not improving – Rocco usually started strong and faded – the new punter improved throuhgout the year –

how – as a D coordiantor that was ranked #10 (out of 32) not showing results

in 2010 the team was ranked #21 (377) in pts allowed and #12 in yards allowed –

in 2010 they went to #10 (328) and #8 in both

you want to place blame – look at the turnovers – the eagles had a horrible turnover ration –

your right – how dare logic, reason, football knowledge and use of factual information be used in forming a thought when dealing with a ‘knowledgable’ eagle fan base – that is the most rididculous thing!

greenfan
greenfan
January 10, 2012 11:20 am

I had a great laugh this morning…Schiller telling someone else that they are “pompusly idiotic” when he spends his time on this baord lecturing others about “what they don’t know about life”…give me a break…but thanks for the laugh

Rocko
Rocko
January 10, 2012 11:21 am

I meant to say Earl Thomas who we had the opportunity to draft vs what we drafted. Then add Castillo in the mix with those D-players we drafted; TOTAL DISASTER!!! I’d rather have jerry jones as our GM.

schiller
schiller
January 10, 2012 11:23 am

green, ok, but what does the criticism accomplish? Other than venting (which in my opinion should be completed by now… ) I don’t think that pointing figures (or commenting at already pointed fingers) is usefull at this point. It’s time to move on, not look back.

paulman
paulman
January 10, 2012 11:26 am

Does anyone else get the feeling that Schiller was not allowed outside the house when he was a kid …. Good Grief….

schiller
schiller
January 10, 2012 11:29 am

Rocko – you’re pinpointing one thing that in hindsight could’ve been better. Have you looked overall to backup your statments “look at the facts man. we are always on the bottom of the totem pole with our draft picks.”.

I’m HAPPY to look at the facts. Please show them to me since you’ve seen them. Where are these ‘facts’ that you speak of that put us at the ‘bottom of the totem pole always”? I don’t want to be a broken record for Navy… but if you’re going to ask for facts, um, did you reference facts for your opinion or just 1 ‘coulda schoulda’?

greenfan
greenfan
January 10, 2012 11:29 am

@ schill….I know that “move on” was popular with the Clinton crew, but you also need to have a good grasp of the failure in the past to see that they are not repeated in the future…the NFL season is still going on, I really don’t see where it is an unusual amount of time be analysising what went wrong…like I said previous, I don’t think many are asking for the guy to be fired, just recognizing that he was also part of the group that contributed to the outcome of this non-playoff season

schiller
schiller
January 10, 2012 11:31 am

Paul, your random comment aside, do you have a point about what I said?

navyeaglefan
navyeaglefan
January 10, 2012 11:32 am

Rocko – your assessmnet of the eagles draft is factually inaccurate and based on rants and emotions – this along with such rants as Reid is horrible with the challenge flag do not hold up when held under any scrutiny or standard other then ‘Cause I said so’

I have challeneged – and I will challenege you – to find a coach or GM that has drafted more pro bowlers then Andy Ried – go –

Andy Reid is very good at finding undrafted FAs as well –

The Eagles organization always has a stock pile of draft picks and tends to use have more picks then any other team during the draft – which allows them to take some risks – don;t take my word for it – all the draft pubs will be coming out soon – I like Lindleys – they have a set criteria they apply to the ENTIRE NFL – not just – oh this one guy here – and oh – that one guy there –

Lets go back to Desean for one second – I think I called him a steal – and you discuss his impact – he was not scheduled to start his first game as a rook – 2 guys got hurt – Desean had a fine rookie year – but now lets test your football IQ – who had a bigger impact their rookie year – Kelce as our center this year – or Djax?.

RealTalk777
RealTalk777
January 10, 2012 11:32 am

How would you guys grade the production of the rookies the Eagles selected from the 2011 draft? the ones that played consistently enough, that we all should have opinions about…
Kelce
Watkins
Matthews
Jarrett
Rolle
Henery
Lewis

This should go without saying, that every member of the Eagles organization should share some blame for this down season…But why do we feel the need to point fingers or delegate blame…Fact of the matter the Eagles have been one of the most consistent NFL football franchises and you don’t do that, with “wack” coaches or “wack” players…Can Roseman do a better job does he need to do a better job, hell yes, has he been a failure, hell no…I just dont see the need for all of the damn nit picking…it would be great to get the one of three players that may be an impact player straight from college, but unfortunately, it is the luck of the draw…JPP is a great player no doubt, but guess what we have solid DLine also, and we are not hurting there! Lets reflect on this past years draft…Kelce, Watkins, both had their bumps and bruises this season, but they started playing better as time went on, and were proving to be NFL ready players in their rookie season…Matthews, was thrown into the fire early on this season and wasn’t ready…But I liked what I saw from him the last few games of the year…We are one or two players away on defense, either players development or player personnel changes.

Paying Steve Smith 5 million to sit on the sideline while your star WR makes a tenth of that money, definitely isn’t something I’ll commend Roseman on…could of used that money else where…But I’m not gonna blame him for trying to add another weapon, even though I knew that Smith would not produce.

navyeaglefan
navyeaglefan
January 10, 2012 11:38 am

Green – I will agree you need to review and analyze every single aspect of what happened this year to figure out what went wrong –

but sometimes the most obvious reason – like being ranked #31 in turnovers (i.e we turned the ball over more then 30 other teams) might be a really, really, really, really really, really good place to start – stating that NAte Allen isn’t a pro bowler yeah – not feeling it – we had two pro bowl caliber DEs in Babin and Cole, and Tapp, PArker and Hunt pitched in as needed – so Graham didn’t need to rush back – so why the chop busting on Graham?

is this making any sense?

schiller
schiller
January 10, 2012 11:39 am

Green – I hear you, I do. But “but you also need to have a good grasp of the failure in the past to see that they are not repeated in the future” – that’s not our job, that’s the job of the front office. I assure you they’re doing so. Since it’s already being taken care of by paid professionals, I don’t attempt that job myself.

IanIJM
IanIJM
January 10, 2012 11:41 am

People are missing the point here to some degree. Roseman’s job is to source the talent for the team. Presumably, if the team if functioning correctly, Roseman begins by talking to the head coach. “What are your needs? Are you happy with this guy at that poistion? That guy? Etc.” The coach tells him, “I’m confident that Casey Mathews can play Mike for us. I’ll figure out how to get Asante, DRC, and Asomugha on the field together and make it work, etc.” That’s not Roseman doing that stuff. Roseman goes out with a shopping list provided by the head coach and is supposed to find the best players to fit the needs, considering everything including talent, cost vs. position’s value to the team, and all that good stuff.

But beyond that, I think the real deal is that Reid has FAR more say in personnel decisions than Roseman does. I suspect Roseman comes to AR and says, “Hey here’s some guys I think we might be able to get in free agency and here are our grades for the draft prospects” and Reid takes it from there. I think Lurie even said as much in that post-press conference hallway conversation he had with the media. Final personnel decisions belong to AR.

And more importantly, it’s probably a bit too early to pass final judgement on some of their recent draft picks. Most NFL players need a couple years to reach full potential.

Rocko
Rocko
January 10, 2012 11:47 am

I had a rebuttal to your statement Navy concerning Roseman and his drafting 3/5 of the oline but it got lost on here some way. Anyhow to sum it up: These drafts were originally pass blocking guards and not run blockers. it was only when reid saw that running mccoy during mdd seson when the playoffs were all but out of hand that the o-line guards were able to use what they were originally in college; run blockers, and that allowed them to naturally gel into what they were best at. (reid always drafted players and tried to change their positions) we just lucked up and the olineman did what they knew. other than that we would be still 85% pass happy and playing crappy.

navyeaglefan
navyeaglefan
January 10, 2012 11:49 am

RT great question!

Kelce – solid A – future pro bowler
Watkins – B to B+ outstanding run blocker – gets downfield and moves well
Matthews B to B- got put in over his head, backed off and got it togtehr late – solid nickel backer and special team player –

Jarret – C- –

Rolle – B to B+

Henerey – A – misses 3 kicks all year – great pick up

Lewis – C+ – not a fan as a KOR – but like his forward lean and drive as a RB – I think he would be a great short yardage back – love guys from Pitt!

greenfan
greenfan
January 10, 2012 11:51 am

schilllll…oooookayyyy….I would also believe that the FO is taking care of the review because it is what they are paid to do…but are you saying that part of being a fan isn’t expressing moves that your team could make to get better or discussing good and bad moves of the past??

What fun is it being a fan who doesn’t think about what his team is doing? If we are to “just to leave it to the professionals”, we could all just phone it in and pick it up next September…come on schill, do you really believe we shouldn’t comment?

schiller
schiller
January 10, 2012 11:53 am

Rocko – so your point is that the draft picks weren’t good until the team just ‘got lucky’ and they started playing good? That’s so BS. The team drafted the players. The players ended up playing well. You can’t ‘pick and choose’ when you’ll give credit and make excuses by cliaming ‘luck’ when they deservce credit.

If luck is involved (and I do think it is), than you have to factor it in when picks DDON’T work out immeditately – see McDougle, Graham, Nate Allen, etc…. not just as an excuse to not give a coach or GM you hate credit when a pick DOES work out….

greenfan
greenfan
January 10, 2012 11:54 am

Ian , good point…which leads me to a question.

Do you believe that the communication between the Head Coach and GM is effectient…rather, do you think these guys “are on the same page”?

The comments earlier from Pman regarding the signing and trading of CB’s without a clear plan makes me think that there are improvements that need to happen here. What do you think?

navyeaglefan
navyeaglefan
January 10, 2012 11:56 am

Rocko – the conversation waa about the GM and getting the talent – I will assume since you used the term ‘lucked’ that you agree the O Line was a strength and 3 of the guys are guys that arrvied under Roseman –

look – my point in this whole discussion is that it is a real stretch to blame Roseman for the 8-8 year – cut down on the turnovers -(like against San Fran!) and you are in the playoffs

schiller
schiller
January 10, 2012 11:57 am

Greenfan – I do not really believe that we shouldn’t comment.

“but you also need to have a good grasp of the failure in the past to see that they are not repeated in the future” —- to me tha quote of yours spoke to how ‘we’ collectively have to (you said “need”)… but ‘we’ can’t see that they are not repeated. We’re spectators, not participatory agents in correcting errors and preventing them in the future for the team.

Sure you can comment (and that’s part of being a fan). But the idea of having to review failures and asign blame to prevent them from happneing in the future, that’s for the team to do.

greenfan
greenfan
January 10, 2012 11:59 am

@navy…I would agree that the turnovers were a huge part of our lack of success…but if we would have had a veteran MLB I also believe we would have made it to the playoffs…so there are multiple areas to look for improvement

greenfan
greenfan
January 10, 2012 12:01 pm

@ schill..we can agree to disagree

paulman
paulman
January 10, 2012 12:02 pm

Excellent Points RT777

Paulmans’ Grades for Rookie class of 2011

Center J Kelce – (Solid B to B +) The surprise of the entire Draft Class at one of the toughest positions to play at Center where you have a lot of repsonsibilities in calls in pass protections based on the defensive fronts,etc,etc, Has Potential for Pro-Bowl Status in a couple of Seasons)

Guard D Watkins – (Solid B) After a slow start, get his legs under him and played pretty welll down the stretch, don’t think he’s Pro-Bowl Material, but a solid Starter for the next 4-5 Seasons and reminds me a lot of a Todd Herremans

LB C Mathews ( C ) No doubt that undue high expectations were placed on this kid coming from a well-known family of very good football players.. Did hang tough and improve as the Season went on, I think he’s more of a situational LB and Special Teamer and not as a full time Starter as a NFL LB

Safety J Jarrett ( D ) Just is overmatched physically and without the great speed to be effective in Pass-Coverages, Eagles missed bad on this one and I don’t believe that he’s even on a NFL in 2 years time.. Nice,smart kid, but not athletic or big enough to be an NFL starter or Back-up in my opinion

LB – B Rolle (C +) The most instinctive LB on the Eagles Squad, very tough & thick and built low to the ground and does a great job running to the ball. He’s a little small and gets lost in the big scrums when bigger players around but makes up for it in tenacity and reading/ranticipating plays probably better than any other LB on the Team, I look at him as solid contributor/rotational LB and a good Special Teamer

Kicker C Henerey (B +) I am not sure how easy it would be for any Kicker to come in replace the very popular and productive David Akers.. After a so-so Start, he got on a roll and made all the kicks that he should make, really only had 1 bad game versus the 49ers early on, His Kickoffs were consistently in the end-zone with some air under them allowing the Kick-off Coverage teams to be much better than years past with Akers handlign the Kick-offs…Kcikers are oneo fthose fickle positions where you never know from game to game to season to season how consistent and reliable they will be, but Henery has erased most doubts and has gotten his career off to a great start.

RB – Dion Lewis ( C ) I was expecting more from him to be honest and especially in the kick-off return game where I thought he ran a little to tentatively.. He has shown some flashes on his limited carries and would think he would be a real weapon out of the backfield in catching passes (like D Sproles is) ..Get this kid 4-5 Touches out in the open field on Screeens, Wheel routes, Delayed outlets passes and I think he can make some big plays.. Needs to work on his blocking as all young RB’s.. He is not a RB who is going to handle the full load if something were to happen to McCoy but I would like to see the get him more involved in the offense in 2012 and be a nice complimentary back and maybe a 3rd Down weapon as he matures

PETE60
PETE60
January 10, 2012 12:07 pm

HOWIE ROSEBUD

schiller
schiller
January 10, 2012 12:09 pm

Pete, thanks for contributing the constructive, substantive point.

RealTalk777
RealTalk777
January 10, 2012 12:10 pm

Navy – I think the rooks produced well this season..

Kelce – played above expectations – only game a really recall him not doing that well was against the Cowboys…but he also had his hands full with Ratliff.

Watkins – I can give a C+ , B (-) for his play…he struggled a bit more, but overall was solid…

Matthews – if I base this on the last 4 games I’ll be giving him an A – but I have to average that A with his early grade I would of given him D – So I’ll average that out to about a C, C+

Jarrett – I agree C (-) or so…he seemed to be around the ball when he was on the field, if he can start to make better reads on the QB and make plays on the ball, he could be a solid safety..didnt seem as physical as I though he would be.

Rolle – B – speed and strength, I like this cat…always around the ball

Henery – B+, A(-) missed 2 FG’s in one game early this season if I’m recalling it right…other than that was very consistent

Lewis – C – he produced positively for us…didn’t return kicks for long runs, but his ball security is something I can appreciate…

RealTalk777
RealTalk777
January 10, 2012 12:15 pm

yea P-Man – I agree Jarrett, may have been the reach in the 2011 draft…But over all I think we can say the 2011 draft was a success…there’s a lot of rookies that gained some valuable playing experience this season and should do nothing but improve…

paulman
paulman
January 10, 2012 12:31 pm

Jarrett was the reach of the 2011 Draft similar to DE Teo Neisham (drafted in the 3rd Round-80th Overall) was the reacah of 2010 and that DT Trevor Laws (#47th Overall in th 2nd Round) was in 2008 and DE Bryan SMith was in 2007
All teams make reaches, but save them forr the 5th/6th/7th Rounds and not
in the Top 4 Rounds where you should be selecting for the Top 100-125 Players Rating by most Draft/Scouting Observors

schiller
schiller
January 10, 2012 12:44 pm

Paul, your point suggest that one knows who a reach is and who isn’t during a draft. Not the case. A ‘reach’ is a subjective term, and whether a player turns out to have been a ‘reach’ is something that can only be done in hindsight.

greenfan
greenfan
January 10, 2012 12:49 pm

I like Rolle, just wish he had another 3-4″ ….but don’t we all

navyeaglefan
navyeaglefan
January 10, 2012 12:53 pm

GReen – no doubt – put LB at the top of the list for next season – right up there with Safety, OL (what happens with Mathis and depth), WR (what happens with Djax) DT and a dedicated, solid KOR and PR guy (yes, I want Brian Mitchell back!)

anyone else here that Mike Patterson got a vote or two for All pro – quietly had an outstanding year – 66 tackles (2nd on D line) tied for 3rd in QB hurries – ,